Geez! Somehow I knew when I posted that this would devolve into whether running it more than once was + - EV. It is neutral. Doesn't matter. Not trolling. Depending on suites V has ~18.5%. So in a $1000 pot, he can expect $185 return and my expectation is $815.

But here is where my gambler's fallacy brain kicks in. If we could run this hand a million times exhaustive we will matriculate to those numbers. Problem is, I can count on 1 hand how many $1000 pots i have played AA vs KK. If V spikes a K on 1 run out, I'm not going to get 999,999 more hands to get my $815 bucks back. And yes, in the grand scheme of things, since these hands come up so infrequently it barely makes a blip on long term win rate.

And to answer if I would chop it based on equity? I would accept immediately. This is also EV neutral in the long run. So why not? And we get to move on to that precious next hand. Also, if I was the one with KK, I'm only running it once. Take my shot at glory and move on. Again, I'm indifferent on what V wants to do here. I just thought it was odd that with only 2 real outs that he would want to run it 3 times.

Which brings me to your quote. I assume since you play poker you know how to deal. These games have *professional* dealerz. One of them that deals in a lot of these games used to deal at Winstar. The convo on how many times to run it took ~10 seconds. Now get out your deck of cards and see how long it takes to run 3 boards. Hmmm.... Not stopping for the action on the flop, turn and river? A standard hand of poker that makes it to the river takes waaaaay longer than this one. I would estimate 30 seconds from the time we flipped our cards and the pot pushed. And OMG if we have to split the pot. That might take another 10 seconds. OH! the agony.

Also while I'm at it (this is fun) INRE the host. The hosts job foremost is to make sure the bank is correct. There is no credit in these games. If you run out of money, the ATM is down the street. 2nd is to know the rules of poker and enforce them when necessary. Most of that is procedural... how to handle a dead blind, not allowing table talk when there are multiple players in the hand. However, when it gets HU his job is to shut up and let the players do whatever they want !as long as it doesn't slow down the game! significantly. Seriously, this hand took less than a minute from the time the cards starting being dealt.

Damn I feel better. Thanks Pete!

This hasn't devolved into that. It's devolved into pointing out that running it 3 times is ****ing stupid when you could run it 2 or 4 times.

There's no dealer in the world that can split that pot in into thirds in anything close to 10 seconds.

I guess I don't get it. Why is 3 so stupid as opposed to 2 or 4.

Well in these games, splashing the pot is strictly forbidden, and the host will rap your knuckles with a wooden ruler if you do it. I make it $15 - 3 reds stacked neatly. V raises to $65 - 2 stacks of 5 red with 3 reds on top. I raise to $225 - 8 green in 2 stacks of 4 and add 2 red to my $15. V takes $100 stack of reds and says "all in" and places it next to his existing bet. I snap call. At this point the dealer does not make both players put in the correct amount of chips and splash them all together in the middle. Each players chips stay where they are, neatly stacked. So I have $225 in front of me and V has $165 in front of him. Run 3 boards. If V wins one, the dealer will verify Vs chip count, which everybody at the table knew because he had just re-bought in for $500. cut out $333 and ship me, in a nice neat stack, $167.

Now on multi-street hands with multiple players, the yes, the chips are all piled in the middle and if there is a split pot it takes a bit longer.

I can also guarantee you that I see more hands per hour in these games than in a casino. As you know, casino's have very specific rules and procedures that must be followed, and that takes time. In these games the players police themselves. It's just not worth it to try and shoot an angle or do anything else nefarious as you will be escorted to the door never to return. As a general rule, you can only run it more than once if the pot is north of $600, it's HU and 1 player is all in. That might happen 4 times a night? So once every 2 hours we have to slow the game down to run it multiple times. Yeah, if we didn't allow that, we could've squeezed in 1 more hand!

Even in the ideal case where he has a nice even stack right after rebuying there's no dealer in the world that's doing that in 10 seconds. Your $167 math is also wrong.

OK. Why 2 or 4 times as opposed to 3?

And how is my math wrong?

Then let’s back this all the way up. What specifically makes V actions so absurd?

Yes he only has two direct simple outs. But as noted there are other ways he can win with five cards to come. Also even only looking at the K outs he obviously removes the chance to scoop, but he improves the chances one or both K come. It literally does not change he EV.

So where is the all time absurdity. Maybe not the best play ever but more just a cooler than anything else.

Please quote any of my posts where I said the EV changed by running it more than once. And you know I have 2 better outs than V does. It could also come K turn and A river. Probably about the same odds as making a flush or a straight. Oh and I can make those hands as well when a K comes. So it's a moot point.

You posted this hand to the most absurd thread. The only part that is not pretty much a standard cooler is running it three times. So if not running three times, what makes it absurd?

I did not say you said anything about the EV of running it more than once. But you did imply running three times was the absurd part when you asked how many outs he had. I only posted why running three or even four times does not change the EVs. So yes running it three times is moot. So again, where is the absurdity?

1/2 table of OMCs on a Wednesday morning.
Casino takes 2 on the flop.

Ep open limps. Folds to bb who open folds q10s. He then proceedes to say he's not going to pay $2 to the house for a flop because then the money is off the table. If he folds then it's still in play.

Was limper his wife

Lol negative.

Not absurd per se but funny: played in a home game where there are two 'tokens' - the token gets passed to whoever wins the pot if it is in play. When you hold the token and the player to your right straddles you are forced to re-straddle. It was a 10-handed game and CO and button held the tokens. It was a 1/2 game that got straddled 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512.

Anyway SB shoved for $14XX with JJ and BB with almost identical stack complain-called with 73 suited. Of course flopped a 7 and rivered a 3. GG.

BB only had $2 invested before making the call? And no one else called, not even the guy with the $512 straddle, getting over 3 to 1?

Sounds pretty absurd to me!

How deep is this 1/2 game? Most 1/2 games I've played in you're lucky if half the table has over 200 in front of them.

From my experience, home game plays deeper than casinos.

I regularly played in a 1/2 game w buyin range 200-500 (with most buying in closer to max). The guy running the game would also ask all players that weren’t losing to stay for 4 hours minimum to keep game running

Sorry it was button who had $512 invested who called with 73 suited and won.

yea i would have spoke up after like 30 seconds. not 5 minutes. id literally tell him to call as the board is the nuts, just like that guy.

i have a very short patience for stupidity. like 5 minutes of staring at a chop on board at low stakes bawwhaha not if im playing.

What other situations would you blatantly break the rules in to avoid wasting your time? What if Elmer the WWII vet 4 bet allin and someone was tanking? How long before you saw "Fold, he has aces"?

I would call clock, I would never, ever influence action in a hand I was not involved in, or undermine someone else's play. That is one of the cardinal rules that I try very hard to never break (though I have flubbed a few times, though I apologized afterwards and offered to call the floor on myself). I guess each of us has a different level of integrity that they choose to play with.

clock after 60 seconds. easy lol.

So why not just call clock on the chop instead of breaking the rules?

but when do you call the clock? after 30 seconds since it's so obvious? you wouldn't normally call it that quickly. what happens then when he asks why you called it so quickly. do you have to keep a poker face about it?

Isn't rit -ev if you have exactly one out? Since you can only scoop if you run it once?

No because although you lose your one chance to scoop, that is made up for by the fact that now you now have 2 chances to chop, and so that makes the ev the same no matter what you choose.