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Old 04-18-2012, 12:37 AM   #126
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by clayton bigsby View Post
more butthurt nerds...never had an account here never been banned before...sorry im not as good at the internet as u doucheclowns...pretty much everything ive said in this thread has been spot on
shouldn't be too much longer
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:36 AM   #127
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by Anduri View Post
It has been far from spot on and that is the problem. I hadn't seen the hand and if someone hadn't corrected your mindless drivel I would have taken you on your word.
He could have came out more polite dats true but he was pretty much spot on in everything he said LOL.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:48 AM   #128
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

I kevmode believe frankenburger made an excellent play, and that he is never getting called by a worse hand.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:40 PM   #129
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Just saw the QQ hand. If you play like that on TV, you deserve anything you get.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:00 AM   #130
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

how can someone who doesnt even know what the minimum required amount is to raise win huge comps?

i thought he was the buisness man drafted in for some value?

great comentary from luke! exactly what most people were thinking
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:50 PM   #131
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by fazzers View Post
how can someone who doesnt even know what the minimum required amount is to raise win huge comps?

i thought he was the buisness man drafted in for some value?

great comentary from luke! exactly what most people were thinking
because the min raise size is different between europe and the US?

bet 500, person raises to 1000 total

min reraise in many US places is 1500
min reraise in many europe places is 2000
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:42 PM   #132
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by hang View Post
because the min raise size is different between europe and the US?

bet 500, person raises to 1000 total

min reraise in many US places is 1500
min reraise in many europe places is 2000
makes little difference imo...

what moran clicks it back from the BB with A7ss there
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:26 PM   #133
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by hang View Post
because the min raise size is different between europe and the US?

bet 500, person raises to 1000 total

min reraise in many US places is 1500
min reraise in many europe places is 2000
wat ?
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:11 AM   #134
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

I read up on Andy Frankenberger's bio and apparently prior to his first WPT win all he'd ever really played was a home game every couple months and some small tourneys. He also pointedly mentioned he literally never played online since he thought it was too isolating, which all implies he's basically had zero poker training his whole life (at least that would explain his post on here where he just kind of ends up rambling about nothing).

Taking that into account with his very aggressive, if unorthodox style of play I'd say it's at least possible that he could have a lot of natural poker talent but is marred by a complete utter lack of fundamentals that lead him to do ridiculous, flat out incorrect stuff from time to time. Still pretty sure though that he's just a fish that happens to play a style that can trick/confuse good players from time to time, but hey he could probably brick everything for the next decade and still be up lifetime so good for him.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:04 PM   #135
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by Bonny89 View Post
Just watched the queens hand, man thats a sick insane fold! Seems a nice guys though, and doesn't need the rubdown off the table!
The only justification for not giving AF the rubdown is the d.t.t.t. one?

His post defending the way he played the hand was defensive or laughable, depending on your view.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:18 PM   #136
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

I find it comical when some people think that you aren't entitled to criticize the play of others simply because you havent experienced their "success". The fact of the matter is that Frankenberger without a doubt plays with a fundamentally flawed mindset. He is one of several live tourney fish Ive seen who play in a fundamentally incorrect manner, would get crushed in any cash game, but have run very good in a few tournies where they were able to bink stuff. It is frustrating to grinders when ppl like this can run super good for a short stretch and be considered great, but that's poker for you. Both of the hands discussed in this thread are awful and his rational for the A7 is flawed on several levels. But hey he seems like a nice guy and did spend the time to actually post in this thread so no ill will or anything toward him.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:53 PM   #137
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Players such as phil ivey and recently phil laak have made worse folds(had winning hand after river and mucked it). There is no denying phil laak is a solid player and phil ivey is a top 5 player in the world.

Frankenberger will continue to make mistakes(or so deemed by haters on 2+2) because his play is televised. If yours is not, its stupid to say he is a horrible poker player.

IMO
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:22 PM   #138
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by CoachMcGuirk View Post
I find it comical when some people think that you aren't entitled to criticize the play of others simply because you havent experienced their "success".
this.

tilts me to no end when you're critiquing one of frankenberger's many horrible plays and some NVGtard is like 'LOL YE BUT WEN DID U WINS TEH BRACELET HURRRRR YOUS JUST A HATER'.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:24 AM   #139
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by LOL POT-ODDS View Post
this.

tilts me to no end when you're critiquing one of frankenberger's many horrible plays and some NVGtard is like 'LOL YE BUT WEN DID U WINS TEH BRACELET HURRRRR YOUS JUST A HATER'.
Doesn't tilt me.

He made a bad play. He got defensive about it. He gets criticised.

Let's all move along, there's nothing to see.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:50 AM   #140
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
Players such as phil ivey and recently phil laak have made worse folds(had winning hand after river and mucked it). There is no denying phil laak is a solid player and phil ivey is a top 5 player in the world.

Frankenberger will continue to make mistakes(or so deemed by haters on 2+2) because his play is televised. If yours is not, its stupid to say he is a horrible poker player.

IMO
unless you're leveling mucking the winning hand isn't a fold it's just like a mental lapse. it's like saying tiger woods is a bad golfer because he's missed a few easy putts.

frankenburger made numerous plays that were just absolutely ******ed made 2 plays in the QQ hand that were just beyond dumb (potting w/o realizing how much was in there and then folding to the shove getting 5.5:1) and then defended himself. when phil ivey ****s up he knows it. you could say a golfer sucked if he kept missing easy putts then defended his play claiming he knew he would miss and just wanted to set up an easier putt next swing. or if he hit into the bunkers intentionally. lucky golfers still win tournies.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:56 PM   #141
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

How can you say frankenberger is bad. He final tabled 2 wpt's and won a bracelet in a year and made it to the top 8 in the 3k this year at wsop. His results are enough.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #142
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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How can you say frankenberger is bad. He final tabled 2 wpt's and won a bracelet in a year and made it to the top 8 in the 3k this year at wsop. His results are enough.
Yea, his results are impressive, but that doesnt make him a great player. I guess you're one of those people who seriously consider getting coached by Jamie Gold.

AF kinda reminds me of Mike Baxter - he also plays just normal solid game, but makes a huge spew or totally misplays a hand once in a while.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:21 PM   #143
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by Andy Frankenberger View Post
It’s easy to criticize, especially in a forum like this. I’ve never been afraid of criticism, or of going against popular wisdom. I was fully aware when I made that play that it would draw criticism, but I did it anyway for reasons which I’m happy to explain. I am sure there are some of you out there who are going to jump at the opportunity to criticize regardless of my reasoning (haters be hating), while some of you are actually curious about why I played the hand the way I did. To the latter group, which I would hope would be the majority of the people who take the time to follow 2+2, please -- read on…

The point structure of the tournament had everything to do with my decision to play the hand the way I did. It was not a cash game, it was not a standard sit and go. The 12 players in the tournament were split into 2 groups of six. We played three heats vs. this group of six, one heat in each of NLH, PLO, and PLH. In each heat, the tournament paid the following number of points based on finishing 6th to 1st place: zero, 1, 2, 3, [BIG GAP] 6, 8. So coming in 2nd place got twice as many points as coming in 3rd. There was also a “double card.” A player could use their double card in one of the three heats, and they had to announce before the heat that they were using the card. To these players, the point payout structure for 6th to 1st was (obviously) zero, 2, 4, 6, [HUGE GAP] 12, 16. Three players used this event, which was the first event – Sorel, Ben, and Andrew. Long story short, there was a HUGE point gap between the first four places and the top two.

Have a look at minute 2:33, the chip counts at the time. I had a massive chip lead going into the hand in question, and I knew that if I could hold on to my chip lead and finish 1st or 2nd in this heat, not only would I win 6 or 8 points, but I would prevent at least two of those three players using their double card from a crucial score of 12 or 16. This would put me in great shape to make the final table (after the 3 heats, the 3 players with the most points advanced to the final table).

Think about how you would play in a satellite tournament with 6 people where there were two seats up for grabs and the bottom four spots paid practically nothing… Are you going to look to get max value in every spot when you have one of the two seats virtually locked up? That’s how I looked at this structure, and this perspective certainly helped me win the tournament.

Do I think I played the hand perfectly? Not at all. I’ve played poker professionally for just over 2 years, and I am certainly still learning. In retrospect, against a tough player like Sorel, betting the flop is the better play because the strong player assumes I’m C-betting every flop, even when I miss. I hadn’t played much against Sorel at the time, so I didn’t know much about his game other than I perceived him to be aggressive, the kind of guy who is better to let hang himself. There are PLENTY of players out there who would take the bait and lead out on the turn, but Sorel didn’t do that. As for my decision to check back the turn, say what you want, but once I decided to check back the flop, I felt that checking back the turn to continue to look weak was the right play in hopes of him catching a card or barreling on the river. I didn't want him to fold assuming I hit a K. When Sorel bet out on the river, I knew I had made a mistake to check back the flop, but I ultimately decided that I was unlikely to get called by a worse hand, and in the off chance that he caught a hand that beat me, I was never folding to his shove… That last decision to simply call his bet on the flop had EVERYTHING to do with the point structure, where, again, with my massive chip lead, I was virtually assured of locking up first or second place in the heat. There was A LOT more downside to me losing a big pot in the off chance that I was beat than there was in winning the marginal chips. I had only 2 points to gain if I went from 2nd to 1st place, whereas I had up to 6 point of downside if I lost that pot. Of even greater importance, if I surrendered the 2nd place finish, another player using their double card could jump from 6 to 12 points just by moving from 3rd to 2nd.

I’ve spoken with several pro’s whose opinions are QUITE different from Luke’s. But Luke is Luke – we all know he’s not on these shows for his poker prowess. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I have always been the kind of person who prefers to defend someone being criticized rather than join in, but that’s maybe that's just me. If you’re in the habit of ignoring the unique point structures of tournaments like this, I hope to see you at my table soon.
You are the worst at poker. I played with you in a 5/10 300 min 2k max game and you buy in for the min and came in talking **** and said some smartass remarks. A couple players told you off and shut you up.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:00 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Alficor1 View Post
Yea, his results are impressive, but that doesnt make him a great player. I guess you're one of those people who seriously consider getting coached by Jamie Gold.

AF kinda reminds me of Mike Baxter - he also plays just normal solid game, but makes a huge spew or totally misplays a hand once in a while.
Frakenberger>Gold

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh....php?t=1204409

Jamie Gold
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:19 PM   #145
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Never play JJ against Jamie Gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olifg...e_gdata_player
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:24 PM   #146
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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Originally Posted by Cubanhoya View Post
How can you say frankenberger is bad. He final tabled 2 wpt's and won a bracelet in a year and made it to the top 8 in the 3k this year at wsop. His results are enough.
results oriented much ?


and lol at using donkament winnings to determine whether he's a winning player.

How much has he spent in buy-ins to get those donkament scores ? What about all the donkaments he didn't cash in?
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:13 AM   #147
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

I just saw that QQ hand, omg, even basic math fundamentals you have to call?
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:01 AM   #148
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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I just saw that QQ hand, omg, even basic math fundamentals you have to call?
I read that point-wise it made sense for him to chip dump to Timoshenko.. I guess it has to be true, because noone who calls himself a "professional poker player" would ever 5bet/fold with queens for like 3/4 of his stack.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:25 PM   #149
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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tilting on so many levels
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:44 PM   #150
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Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

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tilting on so many levels
"That's what you get for calling with Jacks"

Is it true Jamie Gold went broke?
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