Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Casino & Cardroom Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2012, 12:03 PM   #1
zakid
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 88
Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

I felt like this hand was weird enough to deserve a separate thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbqTdc1NBw0

Starts at about 4:40. Frankenberger with a "I thought you had pocket kings" kind of play and Schwartz being quite vocal about how bad Frankenberger is.
zakid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 12:05 PM   #2
LOL POT-ODDS
Pooh-Bah
 
LOL POT-ODDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SGT RJ's number one fan
Posts: 4,064
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Loved this hand. Schwartz just absolutely crushes in the booth lol
LOL POT-ODDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 01:49 PM   #3
peterpjames
Pooh-Bah
 
peterpjames's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,833
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Schwarz: "that is just revolting"

lol
peterpjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 03:45 PM   #4
timfbmx
veteran
 
timfbmx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,196
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

"I'm leaving the room right now" hahaha
timfbmx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 06:17 PM   #5
RNauta
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,163
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Yeah I saw that, really badly played. I am sure a reasonable flop bet would be called regardless of what he held. He just misinterpreted the 'slow play if you have a monster' advice a bit too much. To his defense, it was early on when blinds are small and the pots you win are not that meaningful anyway.
RNauta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 07:34 PM   #6
LOL POT-ODDS
Pooh-Bah
 
LOL POT-ODDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SGT RJ's number one fan
Posts: 4,064
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNauta View Post
Yeah I saw that, really badly played. I am sure a reasonable flop bet would be called regardless of what he held. He just misinterpreted the 'slow play if you have a monster' advice a bit too much. To his defense, it was early on when blinds are small and the pots you win are not that meaningful anyway.
is there really a valid case for his defense? lol

when i found out he had a wsop bracelet and some WPT final tables it made me feel slightly suicidal
LOL POT-ODDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 10:22 PM   #7
dr. ship it
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 505
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

lol commentary is gold. great vid ty for post
dr. ship it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 11:09 PM   #8
nastyyy
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 447
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

I hate Jesse Mays so hard.
nastyyy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 07:45 AM   #9
harkin
Pooh-Bah
 
harkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 3,999
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

LOL Sexton's face after seeing the cards.
harkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 10:21 PM   #10
riconderoga
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 319
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Luke is brutally honest as a commentator. I remember he was asked about Alec Torelli before a heads-up match, and he said very simply, "I've heard he's really, really bad..."
riconderoga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 12:25 AM   #11
Tommy_Tomich969
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,830
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL POT-ODDS View Post
is there really a valid case for his defense? lol

when i found out he had a wsop bracelet and some WPT final tables it made me feel slightly suicidal
He played that hand like a microstakes torny fish plays a monster.
Tommy_Tomich969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 03:23 AM   #12
pear
journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 240
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

This hand is so bad on so many levels. I lol'd hard when I heard frakenburg has won 3 tourny's in less than 18 months. Complete joke, microstake players at 0.01/0.02 even know to bet flop, definitely turn and river.
pear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:00 AM   #13
cpar1
grinder
 
cpar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 541
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

I played with Frankenberger at his table late during the wsop event he won and I thought he was literally the only fish at my table.
cpar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:14 AM   #14
HeHeHawHaw
centurion
 
HeHeHawHaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ML
Posts: 103
Gives me hope!
HeHeHawHaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 11:35 AM   #15
TheLuckFactor
grinder
 
TheLuckFactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sailing the 7 Seas
Posts: 539
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Ok so you can luckbox one WPT, but 2 in such a short space of time? I'm pretty sure if this was a cash game he'd get ripped apart.

Frankenberger seems like a nice guy, but he's terrible at poker
TheLuckFactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #16
MrBump
WINNING
 
MrBump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TOP DOWN CHROME SPINNING
Posts: 6,019
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

lol nice link

Played it like a total fish on every single street.
MrBump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 12:07 PM   #17
shug_bomb
adept
 
shug_bomb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RIP bridge rail
Posts: 929
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

variance is such an amazing thing

not surprisingly, andy's post-hand analysis is just as cringeworthy as the way he played the hand
shug_bomb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 02:14 PM   #18
Scarmaker
adept
 
Scarmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eastern Europe
Posts: 707
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Whenever I hear "hand analysis" it always reminds me of "hey, he cant have aces, I have an ace, if he has kings I can still win and he might laydown queens or jacks"

Great moments lol
Scarmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 01:20 PM   #19
edge of the world
centurion
 
edge of the world's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 170
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Yeah commentary is A+.

I remember seeing some of Andy at WPT and thought he's either really fishy or a genius. He defo plays very weird with underbets, overbets, donking, etc.
edge of the world is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 08:14 PM   #20
Andy Frankenberger
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

It’s easy to criticize, especially in a forum like this. I’ve never been afraid of criticism, or of going against popular wisdom. I was fully aware when I made that play that it would draw criticism, but I did it anyway for reasons which I’m happy to explain. I am sure there are some of you out there who are going to jump at the opportunity to criticize regardless of my reasoning (haters be hating), while some of you are actually curious about why I played the hand the way I did. To the latter group, which I would hope would be the majority of the people who take the time to follow 2+2, please -- read on…

The point structure of the tournament had everything to do with my decision to play the hand the way I did. It was not a cash game, it was not a standard sit and go. The 12 players in the tournament were split into 2 groups of six. We played three heats vs. this group of six, one heat in each of NLH, PLO, and PLH. In each heat, the tournament paid the following number of points based on finishing 6th to 1st place: zero, 1, 2, 3, [BIG GAP] 6, 8. So coming in 2nd place got twice as many points as coming in 3rd. There was also a “double card.” A player could use their double card in one of the three heats, and they had to announce before the heat that they were using the card. To these players, the point payout structure for 6th to 1st was (obviously) zero, 2, 4, 6, [HUGE GAP] 12, 16. Three players used this event, which was the first event – Sorel, Ben, and Andrew. Long story short, there was a HUGE point gap between the first four places and the top two.

Have a look at minute 2:33, the chip counts at the time. I had a massive chip lead going into the hand in question, and I knew that if I could hold on to my chip lead and finish 1st or 2nd in this heat, not only would I win 6 or 8 points, but I would prevent at least two of those three players using their double card from a crucial score of 12 or 16. This would put me in great shape to make the final table (after the 3 heats, the 3 players with the most points advanced to the final table).

Think about how you would play in a satellite tournament with 6 people where there were two seats up for grabs and the bottom four spots paid practically nothing… Are you going to look to get max value in every spot when you have one of the two seats virtually locked up? That’s how I looked at this structure, and this perspective certainly helped me win the tournament.

Do I think I played the hand perfectly? Not at all. I’ve played poker professionally for just over 2 years, and I am certainly still learning. In retrospect, against a tough player like Sorel, betting the flop is the better play because the strong player assumes I’m C-betting every flop, even when I miss. I hadn’t played much against Sorel at the time, so I didn’t know much about his game other than I perceived him to be aggressive, the kind of guy who is better to let hang himself. There are PLENTY of players out there who would take the bait and lead out on the turn, but Sorel didn’t do that. As for my decision to check back the turn, say what you want, but once I decided to check back the flop, I felt that checking back the turn to continue to look weak was the right play in hopes of him catching a card or barreling on the river. I didn't want him to fold assuming I hit a K. When Sorel bet out on the river, I knew I had made a mistake to check back the flop, but I ultimately decided that I was unlikely to get called by a worse hand, and in the off chance that he caught a hand that beat me, I was never folding to his shove… That last decision to simply call his bet on the flop had EVERYTHING to do with the point structure, where, again, with my massive chip lead, I was virtually assured of locking up first or second place in the heat. There was A LOT more downside to me losing a big pot in the off chance that I was beat than there was in winning the marginal chips. I had only 2 points to gain if I went from 2nd to 1st place, whereas I had up to 6 point of downside if I lost that pot. Of even greater importance, if I surrendered the 2nd place finish, another player using their double card could jump from 6 to 12 points just by moving from 3rd to 2nd.

I’ve spoken with several pro’s whose opinions are QUITE different from Luke’s. But Luke is Luke – we all know he’s not on these shows for his poker prowess. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I have always been the kind of person who prefers to defend someone being criticized rather than join in, but that’s maybe that's just me. If you’re in the habit of ignoring the unique point structures of tournaments like this, I hope to see you at my table soon.
Andy Frankenberger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 08:51 PM   #21
LRMFJ
journeyman
 
LRMFJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bromsgrove
Posts: 259
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Sorry guys, I'm with the Frankenberger.
LRMFJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #22
skeptix
grinder
 
skeptix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: not even close
Posts: 668
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

The preflop 3-bet doesn't make sense given that explanation.
skeptix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 02:38 AM   #23
Andy Frankenberger
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptix View Post
The preflop 3-bet doesn't make sense given that explanation.
<< sure it does... i didn't have as big of a lead to *start* the hand as i did after the hand (or what i expected to have after the hand). the more chips i got, the more i could go into semi-lockdown mode (not gonna completely shut it down, but could afford to lean toward conservatism). if you want to find fault with anything about the pre-flop action, how about Sorel not 4 betting 99 there? the reason he didn't do it? the double card. using the double card in the very first event put HUGE pressure on him not to bust first -- a big tactical mistake for him and the 2 others who used their card in event 1 IMO. with this pressure in mind, i thought i could apply pressure in position and steal pre-flop...
Andy Frankenberger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 03:32 AM   #24
selfirstsitra
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 150
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

All this shows is how ridiculous the whole idea of this abortion of a show is. It causes situations/hands like this that I really doubt many of us are really interested in.

Real poker players want to see the best players playing for the highest stakes on TV, that is all.

I'd never heard of this dude until this show, but winning a bracelet, a WPT and some more FTs cannot just be luck. There is a tendency for good players to start thinking everything is 'standard' (Which it might well be at micro-mid stakes).

"First. came the innovators, then the imitators then the idiots..."
selfirstsitra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 11:33 AM   #25
LOL POT-ODDS
Pooh-Bah
 
LOL POT-ODDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SGT RJ's number one fan
Posts: 4,064
Re: Mizzi vs Frankenberger (and Schwartz's epic commentary)

LOL if that really is frankenburger...

trying to justify your thought process when really all that happened was "OMG I HAZ TRIPS TIME TO TARP HIM"

how you could win even a 1 dollar sit n go is beyond me
LOL POT-ODDS is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive