At Foxwoods, a PLO player was banned about a week ago when it was discovered that he had 4 cards missing from one of the decks in his wallet. I wasn't there when it happened (perhaps someone would post first-hand details in the FW thread), but I am posting this as a new thread because I'm generally curious to ask floors and dealers here how often (if ever) they have seen this happen?

I have seen this myself once before, at a stud table. A single card was missing, and after searching on the floor, under the rail, in the other deck, etc. etc., the floor asked the players to all look in their wallets, and lo and behold, one of them did find the card in his wallet. Apparently he had accidently scooped it up with his player's card, and no discipline was taken. In this case, I commented to the shift supervisor that it was amazing, and he told me that he'd seen it before, more than once. I found that even more amazing.

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences with this.


Edit: Oops, I meant to post this in the main CCP forum, not here. If mods could move it there, I'd appreciate it.

There was a 2/5NL player from Mohegan Sun banned about 3-4 years ago for taking two cards off the table (Aces I believe) and placing them on the beverage table behind him as a joke (he was drinking quiet a bit) as the next hand was dealt. I don't remember the specifics as to when it was noticed or what not but he got a lifetime ban by the gaming commission for his actions.

I had it happen once. It was a tournament and a player had his receipt (which was bigger than a card) on the table. After he busted he grabbed his receipt along with one card and headed out the door. By the time we noticed the card was missing and heard back from surveillance he was long gone. I don't think anything was done, it appeared to be an accident.

Do they think Mr PLO did it by accident, like he grabbed it along with some cash?

4 cards is not an accident.

That other thing about picking up a card when he picked up his players card also sounds like BS.

I've done it accidentally at the Borgata. Their cards used to be (may still be?) pretty much exactly the same size as the player's card/credit card.

4 cards in wallet ain't an accident though.

I'd love to hear the explanation given. I have never heard of this happening.

Something similar 7 years ago.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=1128

Actually now that I think about it I saw another guy grab his players card and his two hole cards and put them in his shirt pocket as he was picking up to leave a cash game. I saw him do it and got the cards back.

Players get really loopy sometimes.

Was there an autoshuffler in the PLO game? I have experienced short decks twice in my career. One time it was a pissed off Omaha player who snuck a card into the trash, took nearly half an hour to notice (dealer never counted the stub.. in Omaha.. where there is no freaking stub playing 10 handed!) The other time one card ended up in the other deck; took until the push to notice. Shufflemasters would've flagged these right away.

As a dealer I'm putting the deck that gives an error back into the machine, fanning the backs to make sure the card doesn't show up, crossing my fingers we get a green light and manually dealing the next hand.

I've heard of a player taking cards off the table. The dealer was suspended a few days for not noticing.

The only time I’ve seen this (2 cards), it was an accident.


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Very little chance 4 cards in a wallet at PLO is an accident! Wonder which ones he chose? And BTW do they routinely check folks wallets, purses, and pockets, or was it on the camera when they checked?

If a floor asked to look in my wallet, I'd certainly tell him to go **** himself and I would assume the other people at the table would do the same.

I hope that feeling of exuberance would be worth it when the cops come over, detain you, check your wallet for you, find the missing cards which surveillance saw you put in there, and then arrest you.

This only works out if you don't actually have cards in your wallet.

If you did accidentally scoop up some cards with your player's card, it's in your best interest that they're found while you're being cooperative, and not while you're forced to open it by the police.

You guys know more than me when it comes to live play, but I doubt cops are going come in and forcibly search everyone at the table to find a missing card. How far will it go down the pants, in the socks/shoes?

Heard same story. It was a reg well known in room, but cant / wont say name.

Also heard he allowed wallet search?! So maybe some weird accident? Cant imagine he is swift enough to swap out 4 cards....or 'sarge he caught a hanger...?' They also have shufflers at table, so short deck should be caught right away...

Got the ban hammer.

If they see you on camera picking up the cards and putting them in your wallet, yes, they're going to kindly ask you to pull out your wallet and remove the cards.

I'd think this was obvious, but you know... poker players.

Depends on how they ask:

"Let me see your wallet."

"We have to see inside your wallet because the security camera seems to show that you might have accidentally put some cards in it."

I was originally reluctant to post more details about this incident, because I wasn't there, but here are the "facts" (I hope), and some consensus opinions, as thoroughly discussed today with two very reliable players who were at the table when it happened:
Player in question is a very well-known, experienced reg.
During a hand, he had apparently given up on his hand, was deep in conversation with another guy, and took several (non-poker related) card-sized documents out of his wallet to show them. He then scooped up his hand with them and placed them all back in his wallet. (This was caught on camera.)
The short deck was discovered 2-3 hands later (no more than 10 minutes). The autoshuffler was (probably) being used, and it's possible that when the red light came on, the dealer just put the offending deck back in the shuffler, and dealt the next hand from the other deck.
Anyway, when it was discovered that one deck was short, everyone looked, etc., and cards weren't found. Security was called, and when they came back from viewing tapes, they id'd the player who had put them in his wallet, and then, when he produced his wallet, also noted that the cards were now in a different slot.
Apparently, he had discovered them in his wallet away from the table while the tapes were being reviewed, and had moved them to a different slot in his wallet. (They were not more hidden, just in a different slot.)
The consensus of the players who were there (and also other reg's who know this guy very well), is that he picked them up by accident, discovered them in his wallet, panicked, and shifted them preparatory to either ditching them or making it look more accidental.
Almost no one believes that he took them off the table on purpose.
I realize that a lot of you find it difficult to believe that this could have originally been accidental, but that's what most of us here think.
A number of dealers and floors here have mentioned that they have seen somewhat similar events.
The consensus is also that he was banned because he didn't produce the cards immediately upon discovering them, and apparently actually moved them within his wallet when he did.
I still find the whole thing amazing, and a bit sad.

I have no problem believing it was accidental. Most people have put their keys in the freezer or something similar at some point.

I also believe that the guy panicked, because some people are adept at making things worse unnecessarily. Still dumb though. So many times in life people dig themselves into deeper and deeper holes when just being honest and direct would yield better results.

One time I looked like a wizard in this sort of situation.

Walked into the room after coming off a break, and the table, floor, dealer are looking for missing cards.

Having seen this sort of thing before (see my previous post in this thread), I surreptitiously told the floor to ask to see everyone's players card.

Old man reaches in his front shirt pocket to get it, and like a ****ing magic trick, there's the two cards in question.

You're welcome very much now give me that EO please have a nice day I'm outtie.

I think that is a fair reason to ban him.

You're right, they won't do that. And it has nothing to do with live play.

It's a shame this has been spoiled by the OP giving more information, but basically it goes to, and stop exactly at, wherever the specific location you're accused of putting them.

Nobody will ask, and nobody should agree to, a broad search of peoples' personal effects (or body cavities). But it is often the case that there is a specific accusation of Seat 5 putting cards in his right front pocket or tapes of Seat 7 putting them in his socks. Those requests should be granted.