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Misdeal or kill 2 hands?

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11-10-2018 , 04:13 PM

DrChesspain

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Posts: n/a

I'm sitting in the 5 seat of a 1-2 game, and the dealer seems like a newbie, since he has a temporary badge and his pitching has been somewhat sloppy.

In this new hand, the 9 seat is the BTN and after the last card is dealt but before the first player acts, a few of us see that the four cards for the CO and BTN are between them, in piles of 3 and 1. Neither they nor the dealer know which cards belong to whom. I didn't see either player touch any of the cards.

The floor is called, and the ruling should be...?

Last edited by DrChesspain; 11-10-2018 at 04:26 PM.

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11-10-2018 , 04:21 PM

BigBlue56

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,963

No action. Declare misdeal. KITN to dealer.

With action, both SB/BB hands dead, blinds remain in the pot.

Midweek game:
New player coming into the 6 seat with chips acknowledges that he will take his BB. Cards are dealt, 7 seat folds and I'm in the 8 seat wondering why there is a single card for the 6 seat. I point to the single card, and am told (dealer/other players) that the 6 seat is playing. I shrug and figure there are 2 cards that just look like 1. Action gets around to BB, who discovers it's just a single card. Hand dead, blind dead. No misdeal because the action moved around the table.

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11-10-2018 , 04:26 PM

DrChesspain

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlue56

With action, both SB/BB hands dead, blinds remain in the pot.

I edited my initial post after realizing the two hands were not the blinds but the CO/BTN.

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11-10-2018 , 04:27 PM

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,406

as above, but in most games just put them into 2 piles and play on without calling the floor.

for the 1 card thing, in friendly games i usually see the BB get refunded to the BB if non-trivial pot is won, but it depends on who is involved. in NL games usually no one cares either way.

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11-10-2018 , 04:34 PM

DrChesspain

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinesh

as above, but in most games just put them into 2 piles and play on without calling the floor.

Wat? Maybe a dealer can get away with this by reacting quickly and confidently enough to separate the cards, but at least five seconds had passed, the dealer looked stunned, and numerous players were watching.

At that point, separating the cards would have caused at least 2-3 players to begin quickly calling their loved ones in fear of the coming apocalypse brought about by angering the poker gods.

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11-10-2018 , 04:39 PM

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,406

In the games I play, no one would care as long as it was reasonably clear that neither player had touched or looked at them yet. If the dealer didn't do it, the players would do it themselves.

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11-10-2018 , 06:37 PM

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

Yeah I’m having trouble imaging a dealer being “stunned” by this.

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11-10-2018 , 07:54 PM

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

As the floor, I'm calling it a misdeal. As a dealer, I'm acting like I'm 100% sure I know which card goes where and moving on with the hand/life.

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11-11-2018 , 10:31 AM

BigBlue56

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,963

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChesspain

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChesspain

I edited my initial post after realizing the two hands were not the blinds but the CO/BTN.

Floor is called... I'm expecting misdeal.

IF the floor wasn't called, AND if the players don't object, AND if the dealer or players want to just move one card to make it right, then I'm fine with someone moving a card. IF a player mentions that the hand may not be BBJ or promo eligible (after surveillance checks cameras), then we're back to misdeal.

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11-11-2018 , 12:09 PM

#10

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,852

Hands are dead. Protect your hand applies once the first card is pitched.

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11-11-2018 , 01:26 PM

#11

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

Hands are dead. Protect your hand applies once the first card is pitched.

Do you think that is actually the rule? Or just what you would like it to be? Pretty sure hands would not be dead anywhere I have played regularly.

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11-11-2018 , 03:00 PM

#12

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,406

Hands are definitely not dead since the error was discovered before any action occurred.

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11-11-2018 , 03:39 PM

#13

Didace

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,852

So if I don't like my hand all I have to do is shove one card over towards my neighbor who isn't paying attention?

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11-11-2018 , 03:57 PM

#14

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

So if I don't like my hand all I have to do is shove one card over towards my neighbor who isn't paying attention?

You might get away with that once in a blue moon. But OP specified that this was a new dealer with a sloppy pitch and that he thinks neither player looked at their cards. It also was caught before there was any action, so if this was deliberate it would have taken some brilliant slight of hand. And killing your own bad starting hand would just have a tiny +EV even if you get away with it. I think letting the extremely slight chance of that having happened pass is ok unless it seems to be happening to the same player often.

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11-11-2018 , 04:05 PM

#15

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

So if I don't like my hand all I have to do is shove one card over towards my neighbor who isn't paying attention?

Sure. I mean, until you get caught and banned. You can also sneak chips off your neighbors stack while you're at it.

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11-11-2018 , 11:27 PM

#16

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

As most of you predicted, the floor called for a misdeal, and everyone was fine with it.

I picked up my cards, which were still face down and unseen, and threw them forward while flipping them over (like I do when I chop) and see AA.

LOL at me.

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11-13-2018 , 12:40 AM

#17

Mr Rick

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Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,056

At FW this is always a misdeal because at FW every player is entitled to a hand pre-flop.

In other rooms I wouldn't care much if a dealer moved the nearest of the cards to the player with one card (unless it happened more than once with the same dealer).

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11-13-2018 , 01:25 AM

#18

Lord_Crispen

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChesspain

I appreciate having to flip your cards back over. Thanks. Keep doing this every time there's a misdeal please. I've already done something wrong to delay the hand, please do everything you can to make it worse. =P

(sorry, pet peeve)

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11-13-2018 , 01:39 AM

#19

deuce24off

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 37

Since there had been no action it should have been declared a misdeal.

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11-13-2018 , 12:58 PM

#20

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Any two adults who cannot agree among themselves to make 3 +1 = 2 + 2 should be banned on general principle.

Anyone who calls the floor over this should be banned on general principle.

Anyone who looks at their cards after a misdeal is declared or after the blinds agree to chop should be given a "I'M A NEWBIE WHO STILL CARES ABOUT DEAD HANDS" flashing neon tiara.

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11-14-2018 , 12:45 AM

#21

Phil9

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,608

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

I like those dramatic pauses and theatrics that comes with a foregone concluded chop.

SB: "Wanna chop?"

BB: "Maybe, let me check my cards" with a chuckle. *Looks at cards slowly one at a time*

"Ok, let's chop!"

SB: "Wait, now I gotta look at mine. *Looks at cards even more slowly one at a time*

"Ha, I have Ace/Three but I'll still chop."

Another 55 seconds wasted.

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11-22-2018 , 12:43 AM

#22

PFunkaliscious

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3,061

this is one of those situations where I just don't care. Any way that you distribute those four cards between the two players without either player seeing the other player's card is completely fine as the randomness of the shuffle is preserved.

The only situation where it actually have any real impact is if the BBJ was hit and the casino tried to not pay the jackpot because of the intermingling of the cards.

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11-22-2018 , 01:34 AM

#23

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious

The only situation where it actually have any real impact is if the BBJ was hit and the casino tried to not pay the jackpot because of the intermingling of the cards.

Then they'd better not take a jackpot drop for this hand.

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11-22-2018 , 04:55 AM

#24

Lord_Crispen

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

Then they'd better not take a jackpot drop for this hand.

Yeah. So all we have to do is know that a bad beat is not possible, then openly discuss it to the extent that it would be voided, and get our dollar back every time, right?

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11-22-2018 , 05:15 AM

#25

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Crispen

Yeah. So all we have to do is know that a bad beat is not possible, then openly discuss it to the extent that it would be voided, and get our dollar back every time, right?

Those aren't because of dealer mistakes.

It would be nice if it worked though!
I sure wish I had back all those BBJ dollars that were taken from my pots and flushed down the toilet...

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