Nah, they'll just send Grayson Allen over to their house and he'll whip it good.

Here in New England we have our own silly names for everything, but even that is what we call a Sloppy Joe.

Legwhip?

I think that Grayson listened to far too much DEVO when he was growing up :

Playing some $2/$5 NL. There's a promo going on that pays $60 to the first 50 full houses of the day. There is one left. There is also a $200 high hand promo.

I raise a limper with JJ and the limper is the only caller. Hes a total nit. Flop comes J86. He checks and I check back. This guy never has anything unless its a set and hes short enough for us to get it all in even if I check flop. Turn is another 8. I have a boat that pays the $60. He checks and I bet $30. He folds. I have to expose my hand to collect my $60 bonus. Villain starts telling me how I should've checked to try to hit the J on the river for the high hand. I say "oh crap I didnt even think about that" trying to appease him. He goes on for 5 minutes about how people should try harder to win the high hand. Blah blah blah.

About 10 minutes later he is in another hand with someone else. Flop comes all rags. I didnt see the action. Turn is a K and he bets. The other guy folds and Mr Nit shows KK. Of course I start asking him why the hell he bet his set of Ks when he couldve rivered a K to hit the high hand. The high hand is actually a rollover now and is worth $400. While hes trying to come up with an answer, the dealer rabbit cams the next card and its the case K. The whole table erupts laughing and the guy picks up his chips and storms out.

Dealer is a moron for rabbit hunting. I've never played anywhere with a high hand bonus but I have to wonder how much ev people turn down by doing dumb things with the nuts all the time in hopes of binking 80bb...

This is something we do horribly in the US overall. Overseas the common practice in restaurants is to have the server bring a portable card machine to the table. Customer still hands the card to the server but the card never leaves the customers sight and if the server TRIES to walk off with the card, a fit is pitched. But that's not really casino specific...

Now seeing that i understand why Capriotti's has a sub called a Slaw be Joe (roast beast with cole slaw) but a sloppy joe was always ground beef in sauce on hamburger roll to me.

Hah, I make a stop at a Capriotti's once a year on my yearly trip to the Delaware shore. Normally I get the turkey dinner sub, but now I'll have to try that.

Same kind of situation - high hand promo, guy bet a set on the turn that could make the high hand and everyone folds. Typical table comments about how you should have checked to see if you make quads. Dealer has killed the board but goes to "rabbit hunt" the next card and of course it's the card that would have made quads. Table erupts (friendly laughter/ribbing) and dealer quickly admits that he scooped the 3 Ks on the board unto the top of the stub and that wasn't really going to be the river card. I wasn't the guy with the set so I found it very amusing.

I had a very screwy event/conversation/argument happen in my home room recently. It went something like this.

I was playing in my "fun" (lower stakes OE) game while I waited for a seat in my normal game. I'm in a must move table. I'm not 100% sure because I wasn't really paying attention, but I think the guy in the 9 seat on the SB got moved to the main game, and rather than wait for his button he just moved right away. Whatever the case, the 9 seat ended up empty, and it gets the button for the next hand.

The guy in the 8 seat (who just had the button) decides he's going to move to the 9 seat. Since the seat was open and he's just moving next door, this obviously doesn't affect anything, but somehow or another it caused another player (the BB) to complain that the player is now going to get the button twice.

"He can't do that. He's going to be the button twice. That's not allowed." he says.
"Sure he can. It's a dead button." says I.

We go back and forth a few times, with him saying one can't have the button twice in a row, and me saying of course he can, it's a dead button. He offers a (gentlemanly) $2 bet on it, which I accept to preserve my honor.

Now, this isn't a game I regularly play, and sometimes things change, and my game plays a little more loosey goosey with some rules because it's higher stakes and we police some things ourselves, but I've been playing on and off in this OE game for 5+ years now, and I know the rules in this room, so I estimate there is about a 95% chance that I am right, and a 5% chance that the room recently created some screwy rule to handle this game because it's an omaha game and it's just like every limit omaha game everywhere with its OMC's, so maybe just maybe they changed some rule to just make these guys shut the **** up about something.

Anyway, while we've been talking, the cards are out, and seat 9 has a hand on the button. Now the guy who is UTG calls for the floor, because he's not sure what to do since there is some argument about whether or not the guy should have a hand. None of us want to have to wait for the floor, and both of us prop bettors are saying just go ahead, but he is a little agitated, and the floor is only 20 feet away, so we say fine, let's call the floor, and then I start apologizing to everyone that our little intellectual kerfuffle is now causing this huge issue and wasting time.

Eventually the 9 seat says "You know what, don't worry about it," and kills his own hand, allowing UTG to be happy and proceed. Life goes on.

A minute later the floor shows up to move another player to the main game, so we ask her for the ruling. She is a newer floor who I don't often interact with because of her shift time and the games she usually runs, but she is nice and I have a normal baseline opinion of her likely abilities (my room has pretty good floors). I offer to let the other guy explain the issue, and then promptly stop paying attention. I am vaguely aware of him explaining it, and from the 20% of it my brain bothers to decode, nothing seems wrong. I'm ready to start fist pumping.

Then the floor says "Well, this is one of the few times that the rules don't allow for a player to [something]." I'm not sure whether she said have the button, or change seats, or what, because I am already filling with adrenaline wondering what the **** she is talking about.

"What do you mean? Why not?" says I.
"Well, we have a forward moving button rule here." she says.

She couldn't have said anything more surprising if she had said "Since President Trump passed down his ruling from the High Mount."

"Since when?" I choke out.
"Since...we opened." she said.

Now, like I said, I've played in this room for 5+ years now, since it opened. There is no chance in hell we have a forward moving button rule. We use a dead button rule, and always have. But still, this OE game, anything is possible to make these guys just shut the **** up sometimes.

In any case, I paid the other guy his $2. He gave it back to me, as gentlemen do.

"I...I really think you're mistaken. I have never seen any hand here have 3 blinds."
"No, of course not."
"Uh, then that means we have a dead button rule. The room manager is actually here tonight, you should go ask him."
"Yes. We use a dead button. It's forward moving, so you can't be the button twice in a row."

I am agog.

I was, to my discredit, kinda worked up by this point, so I think I may have been scaring her a little with the tone and volume of my voice and the look of confusion on my face.

"Uh, a dead button and a forward moving button are two opposite things. You can't be both at the same time. With a dead button, a person can have the button twice, that's what the dead button means. With a forward moving button you can't be the button twice, but you end up with hands with either 2 BB or 2 SB's in it."

Then I got called for my other game, so I packed up and left. I really hope she did eventually ask someone about it.

Frist, ldo.

And thus the zombie button was born.

It's possible that she just had terminology confused.

I'll admit that I didn't know what "dead button rule" and "forward moving button rule" meant, but once you described it I instantly knew which rule my local rooms employ.

Floors should know better obviously but just sayin'.

That is possible, but my room is a dead button room and a player is allowed to be button twice (or three times, or 7 times) in a row if that many SBs leave or bust out, so terminology aside I still think she got the ruling wrong.

I've never played with a moving button. How do you get the two SB or BB situations? Good storytelling btw.

Think of it this way:

Seat 9 is on the button, seat 1 is SB, seat 2 is BB. SB busts out and leaves. On a forward moving button, seat 2 will now get the button even though he was just BB. In this case, there will be a SB on the button and 2 BBs in seat 3 and 4.

It wouldn't be fair for seat 3 to skip his BB and go straight to a SB. The following hand will now have a SB in seats 3 and 4 with the BB in seat 5. After that blinds go back to normal.

In the dead button scenario, the button would just sit in front of an empty seat 1, essentially giving seat 9 the button twice in a row.

Actually with the DB rule, the best way to work it is just leafy the button stay on the 9 seat. The idea is that a dead button doesn't move as that is one symptom of dead. This also can allow help avoid the appearance where the button appears to move backward.

Another way to help position the button is to remember the button can only be positioned at a live player position. It can't move to an empty seat.

One other item the would eventually help is if dealers would stop calling a missing SB a dead SB. Just say BB only. Or no SB this hand.

I have seen plenty of confusion with how a dead button should be handled. Even though I first played with the DB rule and still use it in most rooms here, I now see why the moving button rule works slightly better for cash. It was weird seeing three blinds the first time. I was like....but ther can only be two blinds, how will it ever get right again. The I played with a MB a couples of times and was like, wow never an argument where the button goes...it moves to next live seAt. The extra blinds also juice the game slightly by getting more chips in the pot. Once you learn and understand the MB rule it seems simpler.

To throw another twist in here ... What happens if Seat 8 doesn't move and a player showed up in time for the next hand, sitting in Seat 9. Does he get cards? In most places ... NO.

The easiest way I've found to quell the 'dead button' discussions is to say "The player has position again but he has no option to straddle."

I don't want to blow up this thread with one topic but in the spot above I don't care if 'new player' Seat 9 wants cards or not ... but he must post (both blinds) or straddle (if allowed) in order to get cards. This would create a lot of discussion initially in a room for sure. The moving Button rule would eliminate this scenario with Seat 1 getting the Button with Seat 9 getting cards in his 'first' hand at the table. I like the moving Button (I call it an Arizona Button) since you will always have at least 2 players setting out blinds in every hand. GL

Well, it's a posting game, so if the button stayed dead in seat 8, and a new player sits in seat 9, then he can either buy the button now (and next hand he gets the button, seat 1 SB, seat 2 BB), wait a hand for button to move to seat 1 and then post, or wait until the BB comes around to him. This is pretty standard for a new player entering between the button and blinds, I'm not sure why you think it would cause so much discussion. (Of course, a dead button is also standard, and it caused my whole story, so who knows.)

Another option that some rooms offer is to allow the new player to post "in between", so button on seat 8, BB in seat 9, SB in seat 1, and BB in seat 2, then button moves to seat 1 next hand. I tend to prefer this arrangement as it lets players in a hand earlier (and gets their post in OOP), but it can be confusing to people who've never seen it before.

Your "easiest way" might work in a room that allows a MS straddle, but ours doesn't so it wouldn't work at all. Moreover, I'm not sure why you wouldn't allow the player on the dead button to MS straddle twice, but I suppose that is up to your room. I don't think it particularly clarifies anything in the general case, though; maybe it would in your room with your rules.

I guess I should add that in a game which doesn't require new players to post to receive a hand (i.e. NL games), then I can see why sometimes players might get confused, but yes the new player in seat 9 can't get a free hand between button and SB, he must wait a hand for the button to pass to seat 1. And if seat 1 happens to bust out, then it's another dead button and he must wait another hand (and so on).

You offer a different kind of twist ... You indicate the Button would stay 'on' Seat 8. We don't look at it that way. It's dead in Seat 9 so our solutions come from that premise. We are dealing with Seat 8 moving into 9 (no straddle option), the seat being open (no cards, Seat 8 has position) or a new player (straddle, post or wait).

I totally agree with your comments should the Button stay 'at' Seat 8. That premise is a new one to me. GL


PS ... We don't make new player post either ... unless they come into a dead Button or the blinds!!

Well, my preference is to keep the button on seat 8 specifically because it allows a new player to sit in 9 and BTB/post between if he wants, and I see no real benefit to moving the button to the empty seat 9 other than to give the illusion of motion, but aside from the BTB or post between twists it's all semantics and doesn't really matter.

Your premise that the button is dead 8n seat 9 just comes from a mistaken understanding. Dead button always meant the button didn't move. At some point I noticed dealers start moving the button and players getting confused about what a dead button meant. Of course it makes no real difference to game play so it doesn't matter untIL someone clueless decides the player in seat 8 can't move to seat 9 because seat has the button.

This leads to another issue I have with terminology. If the player who would have been the small blind leaves .... their is not a dead small blind. There is no small blind. To say it was dead would mean it doesn't move which is not the case (or it could be dead in the sense that a player posts a small blind that will not be counted towards his call but that is a different thing all together)