In our room, if a player bets, another calls, and then the bettor mucks, the caller does not need to show at all. But if there is a bet and a call, and one player shows a partial hand (one card on Holdem, two in Omaha) and then the other player mucks, the player must complete tabling his complete hand. The dealer would tell him he has to table all cards to get the pot. It's sort of like if you tabling part of your hand induces a muck, you must complete the tabling. But if the player mucked without being induced, there is no need to show. If a player refused and jammed his hand in the muck, the floor would give the guy the pot, as well as a rack to leave for at least the night.

I already said that is the rule in most places. But in AC it at least used to be the rule that the winning hand had to be showed. I never saw this happen, but I think if all hands were mucked, the pot was supposed to carry over to the next hand.

Only live hand remaining is the winner. No need to show.

Before we changed our rule, we had the rule that the winning hand had to be tabled no matter what to get the pot. Several times players from out of town would question it, but comply. Only once did I see a player refuse. The floor was called, and explained the rule, and the guy still said he doesn't have to show. Finally, the floor said "I am going to countdown from three. If you haven't tabled your hand by the time I say zero, you will forfeit your claim to the pot and will be told to leave the room". The guy tabled his hand, and we moved on after a wasted 10 minutes.

The house rule on this is room dependent. I know 3 rooms for sure where you ARE required to table a hand to have right to it in this situation.

What would happen to the pot if the guy "decided to forfeit" his claim to the pot?

I see this quite a bit now that I play PLO more often ... I called a bet and showed a baby flush 'OOT'. The opponent was waiting for the other two and actually stated "I'm not going to slow roll you, just show the other two."

I fired back, "I'm doing you a favor. You don't like to show and I'm giving you an opportunity to muck. I already know what you have, why show the others the rest of our cards?" He quickly mucked ... as did I without issue. GL

If hiding marginal amounts of information is so important, why would you call and then flip over two of your cards? Why not call and then if he says, "You're good," then flip over the two and wait for him to muck?

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To my original question, it sounds like if 8 of the 9 players at the table are fine with two-card showdowns then effectively that settles it unless the ninth player is in the pot at showdown. I'm fine with that.

However, I don't think the dealers should be doing anything to read incomplete hands--not announcing the hand rank, not pushing board cards up. This two-card thing should be entirely player run.

Me, I show all four because if I'm beat I want to see all four.

You are spot on ... It's totally opponent dependent for me. This particular opponent likes to be especially secretive for whatever reason, so I just feed the beast in order to keep the action headed my way. I could really care either way when I'm playing a reg. I will be a little more formal when against an unknown opponent or in a less frequented room.

I do think Dealers should 'read' whatever is tabled and follow what is typically accepted in their room. The Dealer should take advantage of any opportunity to move the game alone within the confines of the room procedures. GL

Can't say for sure, as it is such a rare event that it would just depend on what the floor decided to do. I see three possible options under different rules in RROP. One is that the pot is forfeited and is then carried over into the next hand. RROP states this is the remedy if a player knows there is a fouled deck (like he is playing a hand with two Ah) and tries to freeroll to win the hand. But if his hand is exposed, he can't claim the entire hand is invalid and get all his money back. Instead he forfeits his money and it goes to the next pot.

Then RROP says that when money is forfeited per that rule, OR OTHER REASONS, (my emphasis) only the players dealt into the hand can play in the following hand. So I would suggest that this would fall into one of a possible "other reason" for a forfeiture and the money is rolled over.

But there is another place in RROP where a pot can be awarded to a person who has mucked his hand. If a player intentionally misdeclares his hand, causing the other player to muck, the player misdeclaring the hand can be made to forfeit the pot and it can be given to the other player, even though he no longer has cards, and the other player does. So that is a situation where the "last person with a live hand" doesn't get the pot based on him not following the rules, and the pot is awarded to the second to last person with a live hand, even though that hand was never tabled. So there is a possible precedent there.

And I guess a third option could be to refund the pot back to the other players, and just forfeit the amount the guy who wouldn't show put in, and carry that over to the next pot.

Since I don't know if this has ever actually happened where a guy absolutely refused to show, I can't say how it would go. I guess it's just sort of a thought exercise based on trying to extrapolate from other rules in RROP

I already stated that I believe where this is the rule in NJ casinos, the pot would be carried over to the next hand. I've never seen that happen though.

Heard a great story of a guy who tried to muck his winning hand after making a HH promo hand. He had already tabled his hand before the River but then tried to muck it.

WHY you ask? He was self-banned from the casino and didn't want to draw attention to himself by having to sign the promo papers!! GL

Something similar happened with a BBJ I was involved with last month. After we had given our IDs and were waiting to get paid, a couple of people wearing Security uniforms showed up to hang around the table. At the same time, one of the players, instead of waiting for his table share, quietly racked up and left. The dealer later said he must have been either self-banned or banned by the card room.

How do you guys handle idiots tapping the glass? EVERY session I play always some idiot wants to remind fish how bad they're playing.

"OMG YOU LUCKY IDIOT!"
"Of course you're in. You play everything."
"How do you call with that?"
"$50 pre with Q8s nice catch."

Shut the **** up! Seriously sick of calling out the more blatantly obvious glass tappers at the table.

At least one of those, the second, could be pretty benign if said in the right tone. Good games have donors who know they're donors. To a couple I wouldn't hesitate to say, "Ah, ya got me on the river! Joe, I never know what you have. You could have any four cards [in omaha]!" And Joe knows that he's just chasing draws for the fun of it and we have a good rapport. He smiles and stacks the chips, I smile and am grateful he's in our game, everyone's happy.

Also why I've gotten away from talking about "fish"--different topic. I respect people who are so established in their day jobs that they can donate to keep poker juicy.

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As for the others there's not much you can do. You can hint a bit at the table. You can talk to them away from the table, but that kind of outs you as a [semi]pro to them. Usually the people giving the advice only know a little bit anyway.

Occasionally I'll turn it into a joke. "Hey, Jonathan over here will be giving lessons next week! I took his course last month. Came with YouTube videos and everything. Didn't learn a damn thing." And often Jonathan will get the message. Chances are he's not an idiot, just dealing with entitlement tilt.

But it's essential to do this with a smile.

Always wondered what rules are about sweating high stakes games. If someone wanted to go in bobby's room and rail games how do they do that? do you have to know someone in the game?

That's a good one. I'll use something similar next time. It's like when you say something stupid then your alpha male friend makes fun of you in a very non-confrontational, respectful way. Really kinda puts you in your place.

Was in a 3 way pot the other day, fishy guy won, reg was complaining about it, I told him other guy can play how he likes, reg says 'we were both way ahead of him', I said 'yeah and I'm not complaining about it'. Which shut him up until he found something else to whine about 30 seconds later.

It's annoying though, especially when the guy is a real mark and also seems to be a nice guy wanting to have a bit of fun. A bunch of bitter regs ripping into him isn't exactly an enticement to keep coming back.

I have so much less tolerance for the reg's behavior there than I used to. Nowadays I'd just start making fun of the regular to his face.

Good on you for doing what you did.

I know I'm a broken record but genuine humor will always be way more +EV than animosity (even sarcastic barbs) toward the regs. Done well, I think you can poke a little fun at the table coaches without raising tensions, which is never good for the game.

I 100% agree with you and ideally I'd have a merry quip ready to go every time, but I'm not that quick witted. I will say my tone was light and matter of fact - it looks harsher written down - and the reg didn't visibly take offence but yeah making a joke would have been better.

Had a hushed convo with the 1 seat for ripping into the 10 seat a couple weeks ago. 10 seat was unkempt and had a big stack. Mumbled something about the 1 seat not having enough chips to make it worthwhile making what I guess was a speculative at best call. English was either not his first language, or he was just terrible at communication. 10 seat went bananas mosty quiet at our end, with a couple of nasty comments loud enough for the table to hear. Another player and I managed to get through that we were ALL interested in him donating his sizable stack instead of chasing him away. He caught on eventually, and we did eventually get that stack.

Same 10 seat gave me a comment last week about only playing two hand in two hours when he folded to my PFR. Good thing he didn't remember when I made my next ten PFR/CBETs against him.

I like your approach but I disagree with mentioning ANYTHING having to do with poker lessons because many fish think of poker as gambling like any other casino game and don't even know there are lessons for it. That goes double for mentioning (or watching at the table) poker videos on YouTube because a lot of people won't bother to read books but they will watch YouTube videos and learn that way.

I even think it's bad for poker that Andrew Neeme is touring. He's going to turn people on to YouTube and help a lot of fish accidentally find some great free poker training in the recommended videos section of YouTube.

Pretty much this. So many idiots regs at the tables who lack basic emotional control and are ENTITLED TO THE MAX! Here's an example:

Reg sucks out on me in a $600 pot. Reg says "sorry man". I say "don't be sorry cause I wouldn't be". Then the same reg gets sucked out on in a $200 pot vs a short stack fish, throws a tantrum and berates the fish.

Thank you to everyone who doesn't bite their tongue in this situation. I feel like a lot of regs act like babies because no one calls them out ever. Also note that the reg clearly isn't "sorry". He is saying that to be polite when he doesn't feel that way at all. In other words, he's being fake.

I don't like the fake "sorry" though I know some players say it thinking they need to say it out of politeness for sucking out. If they do, and I obviously want them to stay and play bad so I have a chance to get my chips back, I will say something like "is that short for 'sorry You didn't have a bigger stack' ? " it breaks the awkward feeling and makes the guy more comfortable. To me, the social stuff is important for keeping the players playing. And saying that usually preempts those who feel compelled to point out what a bad play he made.

The guy I hate more is the one who, after you lose your stack to a two outer, points out "you were ahead until the river!" Yeah, thanks for clearing that up for me, dumbass. But I don't say anything out loud.