Cliffs - Harry see opponents hand, after 2 times is AGREED upon and changes his mind to ONCE. Chris has no say, dealer just rips board...

If Chris didn't show, Harry wouldn't have changed. But Chris only showed AFTER 2 times was agreed upon.
Chris most likely didn't think that Harry would get this info and change.

That's a good point. Since the default is once and since twice is only a special allowance for that particular game, there doesn't have to be an agreement about once if one player calls for once. That being said, if both players agree on twice and one player tables his hand because of the agreement... and if the other player then changes his mind as a result, at the very least this is highly unethical, which matters a lot in such a "home-like" game as the higher stakes of LATB.

Ya, I would say that "Legally" what Harry did was fine maybe
But, unethical. Especially if video shows that Harry saw the turn first

Said 2x, got to see Chris's hand... saw the new info of only realistically being able to win it once (If that) and changed his mind.

Chris could've not exposed his set, but he did so AFTER 2x was agreed.

Running it 2x gonna be shut down at Bike because Harry
Commentator Gary talking about how it will affect the bigger games

Most of the games I play in, if you run 2x then both players must expose their hand right away. That would have prevented this debacle right away

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

Reg always right lol Harry thug

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using 2+2 Forums

Harry's a turd - at least 2 or 3 times during the stoppage he was saying "I've been putting a lot of money in this place for 23 years", which has no relevance on the issue at hand. Then said why would he run it twice and waste the time when he was drawing dead to Chris' set...then proceeds to hold firm on the run it once while the game is delayed by 20 minutes, which is probably more time than running it twice in what, maybe 15-20 hands?

Based on players reactions they knew Harry was wrong, but I also suspect he's good for the game so they didn't want to push too hard.

It's BS. Once they agree to twice and the dealer confirms Harry can't go back once he finds out Chris hand.

I agree that it was BS, but I don't think Harry broke any rules. Verbalizing that you want to run it twice isn't like verbalizing "all-in." I mean, if Harry had instead verbalized a bit earlier that he didn't want to run it twice, then the dealer would have had no other choice than to run it once. Once is the default. Moreover, if you prematurely expose your hand, you open yourself up to being exploited.

All of that being said, I do think the floor made a poor call. If you can't determine whether a player verbalized his change of mind before the turn card was exposed, then you must go with the initial agreement. Nobody at the table was certain that Harry announced his change of mind before the turn was exposed.

When two people agree to run it twice, why would that not be verbally binding?

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

The binding of a verbal declaration pertains to betting actions. The betting actions are check, bet, call, raise, and fold. A statement about the number of boards is not a betting action.

Let's imagine a slightly different scenario between Harry and Chris. Instead of Harry announcing almost simultaneously with the tabling of the turn card that he wants to run it once, imagine that he made that announcement a couple seconds before any action took place. Even if Chris were then to argue that the initial agreement should stand, I doubt any floor would mandate a second run-out.

From my perspective, everything rides on the timing of Harry's declaration that he wanted to run it once. If he first said it definitively before the dealer plucked the turn from the deck, then I'd argue that once should stand. I don't think that happened, though. Heck, Harry didn't even declare it definitively to the dealer. Because Harry was never clear and because the timing was way too close, I think the floor made a poor call. The floor should have defaulted to the original agreement. But Harry is good for the game and good for LATB, so the call went his way.

The timing of Harry changing his mind is irrelevant to me. He only attempted to change his mind because he and his opponent came to an agreement they'd run it twice and then his opponent showed his hand.

It's highly unethical (and if there are rules somewhere about running it twice, I'd have to imagine it's against the rules to renig on a deal after your opponent shows his hand).

Personally, where I play if you're running it twice all cards must be exposed before the dealer flips the turn/river over and there is no changing your mind when you see your opponents hand. This prevents scumbags from taking unethical actions to try and win.

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

I'm not arguing that what Harry did was anything but unethical. I certainly think that what he did was underhanded. However, I'm not sure he broke any rules when he reneged on the initial agreement. Good luck finding any standardized rules about running it twice. It's a room-by-room and game-by-game allowance that's up to the discretion of the floor.

In theory this should have no relevance (actually, I'm not even sure I believe that), in practice of course it does.

Never run it twice unless you are extraordinarily certain you won't get angled.

Harry is a POS

The phony says, "in the bylaws it says you cannot run it twice." Harry has run it twice 5000000 times. The man has 0 honor.

Yeah and Harry rips up cards without consequences too. He CLEARLY has a different set of rules from everyone else there.

If Polk or Torelli or Eldar or anyone else did this, they’d be vilified to the millionth degree.

Harry needs to be disciplined but the Bicycle casino staff to be honest don’t have the balls to get him to knock this kind of crap off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can't remember the exact date, but a within the last few weeks on LATB there was a 3-way all in pot in which there was a side pot, and Harry was getting indignant about him not being allowed to override the all-in-for-less player's choice to run it only once because he had potential side action and wanted multiple run-outs. I think it was early in the game, and he was sipping wine as usual. I'll Paypal $5 to anyone who can find me that clip and post it in this thread.

Dude is a Hypocrite and absolutely DNGAF about angling.

Wish Barry Woods would've been there to call Harry out.

Love that guy

Wish the crew would simply no longer allow Harry on

LOL they cater to the 12-20 regs in LA and they just ignore everyone else that isn't already known in the poker community.

I understand that business is business, but if you're only going to cater to those people, then stop charging big bucks to watch the same clowns act badly over and over again.

They love Harry to death. He's a Live at the Bike "legend." Yuck!

How terrible is harry at poker for them to let these things slide?

Harry back on the ante show tonight.
Called clock on Eli after like 80 seconds, solely because Eli was on team Chris last week and didn't defend Harry last week.

What a baby
Harry -10K, so there's that

Until LATB finds their balls and deals with Harry, they’re dead to me.

Ryan Feldman said on tonight's show that running it more than once is now prohibited both on the show, and all the games at the Bike.