I would like your reaction and how you would handle this if you were in this situation. I will strive to give all the facts and circumstances so that it gives you the "big picture" of the circumstances.

Event - $200+40 deep stack tourney (75k chips - 15 min blinds - excellent structure)

Thought it started at 7pm - saw at 5:20 that it had started at 5 pm but figured that there would be a delay of start time. I was at the club within 15 min easily - there is a long long path from the door to the room - at all times I am visible to the poker tourney staff - I check in (2 min) - walk from there to registrations desk - took another 2 min - given chip for entry - at all times the tournament director's back is to me and I have to ask who do i get my seat from.

I am pointed to a gentleman 2 feet from me - he turns to me..and says

YOU ARE FIRST ALTERNATE

The tournament has EXACTLY 18 PLAYERS - these are 9 man tables - there are 20 tables in the room....a short handed 4 person cash game is playing about 20 feet away and other than that not a soul.

My exact words - ok...never mind - I walk back to the registration desk - give them my chip - "oh you are not playing" - no thank you - i am not waiting - for another table" - I go back to the membership desk and un-register - oh ..you are not playing - no seat available - ohhh sorry - I go back down the path to the door...I spend about 3 minutes in conversation with the cash game table - of course they are begging me to play since I am the biggest donk in the world.

(My thoughts - first it is up to the club to make a decision whether to break up 2 tables to make three tables to accommodate me - if they do not wish to - then that is their decision - just as it is my decision as to whether i wish to come in at a later point in the tournament where the chips are worth less than they were and every hand that goes buy my value is getting less and less.

That being said - I went into a long description of the "travel time" in which the floor manager had ample time to see I was approaching - to see that I was not playing cash but indeed was gong to be coming to play the tournament and could have easily stepped up and said either

a - sorry sir but I would like to let you know that the tournament does not have a seat available but should we get another X players then we will open up another table
b - after saying "ok...never mind" and seeing I had no intention of playing - he could have said - I am expecting some more players on the way - if you could give me a few min - or until the next blind level - I will split the tables into 7 each (hardly a difference from the 9 max) and I will get you a seat."
c - this is a dream manager if he had said - I understand this is a loss of equity for you in terms of chips - how about we refund a little bit of your vig (the $40) for not being able to accommodate if you give some time to see if we get more players

That being said - approx 1 hrs later they had 3 1/2 tables going

I will leave this in your thoughts and would like you to comment
Lastly - this is not a $10 rebuy tourney - the vig is a fairly substantial one - I am a very well known member of the poker community and it is not my first brush with complaining about bad services - lol.

Looks to me that you were first alternate.

Also, 15 minute blinds and good structure don't go together.

Poker room managers and floor people make lousy mind-readers. And thats a good thing.

So you arrived late. They didn't have a seat available and you understand that one of two things are going to happen ... Either a player will bust out and you will get the seat or enough players will show up that they can open another table ... But you are upset because the floor didn't tell you that and beg you to stay or offer you cash....

I am not sure what I just read. If I waded through that wall of text correctly, your main complaint was that you were allowed to register for a tournament as an alternate after you misread the starting time. Am i missing something? And you wanted a reduction in rake because....why? Or you wanted them to put another dealer in play so that all tables could play shorthanded because...again, I am not sure why.

I am completely failing to see the substance of your complaint.

Personally I think the room is not run very well.

It sounds like you weren't the only one who thought the tournament started at 7pm.

They set up for up to 18 players and they get over 30 players but won't start a third table more than an half an hour into a tournament with 15 minute levels and make a player take an "alternate" ticket? That is truly bad management.

That happened to me once at FW. I bounced out of an 11am tourney at 6:45pm. I quickly registered for the 6pm tourney and they sat me at a new table. With one other player. They wouldn't let us start playing, and wouldn't get any players from the other 8 or 10 tables that were basically full. After 5 minutes of doing nothing, I got my money back and let them have a piece of my mind. Their rationale was that it isn't fair to "move" players who have been at a table for 45 minutes to accommodate new players. They have since abandoned that position and now will grab players from other tables to start a new table.

I would talk to the room manager and let them know that it is ridiculous if they have the dealers to make alternates wait. Especially if they expect more players. And especially if the levels are 15 minutes. Maybe part of the problem was that they had no idea more people were coming...

I wish this would have been the first line so I could have seen what a waste of time this whole post was early and bailed out.

I assume this isn't the first time this tournament has been run. They likely never fill two tables and therefore didn't staff more than 2 (+break) dealers for the tournament. For whatever reason on this day they filled up; it happens. Try to register earlier if you don't want to be an alternate.

The solution is to wait for a few more alternates so a new table could be opened up. With 1 other alternate, 2 players from each of the tables could be pulled to the new table and the game could start 6-handed (with the original 2 tables having 7 players).

It doesn't matter how many tables they have, you can't run a table without a dealer.

plenty of staff - probably 3 standing by at least - maybe 5

Two nine handed tables going for forty minutes.
One player shows up and you think they should redraw for three tables of 6, 6 and 7?

So a 5 PM start instead of a 7 PM start? They started early for some unusual reason or was it your fault/misunderstanding about the time? Whichever, I don't think that it was out of line for the room to wait and see if anybody but you would show up late. Also you certainly would get the first bust out seat right? $200 + tournament BI and only 18 players (plus you) ? Seems a bit under attended for the price. Just me.

Yes I do.

The initial mistake of starting just two tables is the fault of the room not the additional player.

To make a player who has paid full admission wait in a tourney that has 15 minute levels is not right.

Also, the chances of getting additional players to play goes up if there are available seats. So while its somewhat of a disadvantage to the players being moved in that they just learned how the other 6 or 7 players are playing, its a benefit to have a larger prize pool.

If a room is welcoming late registrations then that room has an obligation to seat those late registrations if it has the dealers and tables to accommodate.

I wouldn’t call that a ‘mistake’. The vast majority of players want to play 9 handed and not start 6 handed on 3 tables hoping that more people might show up.

Tournament director should have told OP that he would be an alternate before he bought his ticket. That’s the only thing hat went wrong here. There’s no god given right to get a seat in a poker tournament.

I’m pretty sure the majority of players would have said “hell no!” if the TD asked them if they wanted to move to 3 tables to accommodate a new player.

I feel your frustration but it's a common one. Unfortunately if you show up late to a tournament you're resigned to however the TD determines is the best way to get you in to the tournament. And that's not always an easy decision. The choices there are waiting for a few more players to get more of a full table, or going the 6,6,7 route right away. A little more background might help. Is more than 18 a lot for this type of tournament? Follow up ? is whether there are enough dealers (not tables) to handle 1 (or 2) more tables? do people commonly come late?

I run tournaments twice a week and run into this issue about 75% of the time. People come late and the numbers just don't work perfectly. Sometimes we are stuck near the end of the re-buy period when 1 player comes in that will disrupt the numbers. The best thing I can say to that person is that I will put him on an alternate list. Either someone will bust out, or more people will register to get 1 more table, or I will put an 11th chair at a table. One way or the other I'll get you in. Occasionally that person will cause a stink about having to wait, but the easy answer there is that the tournament started 56 minutes ago and registration was open for an hour before that. I'd rather not have to start a new table and move 6-8 players if I don't have to, especially considering how many elderly players we have.

But like all situations, no matter how much customer service you give out, the customer won't be happy. That's life. One Wednesday we had a mad rush right at start time. At 12:55 we had 19 players and around 1:05 I was registering #41, with a few behind him (start time 1pm). I nicely explained to #41 that we will get another dealer set up as soon as possible so he could start playing. #42 heard that and got upset before he even stepped up to the counter. I didn't want to deal with it so I just stopped him right away, "give me a break (player name), we just went from 19 players to 45 in about 10 minutes." He quickly apologized and the fumes coming out of his scalp faded away.

Maybe I'm spoiled. At FW they do a very good job of predicting how many tables they will need. We start 4 to 6 players per table and within 30 minutes we are up to 7 or 8. If they overestimate at some point they combine tables.

As a player I welcome the opportunity to play short handed in the early stages of a tournament. Its excellent practice for the rare times I end up in the final 11 to 14 and of course <=7 players.

to answer the posts

the club is very much a late reg
the registration was open for 2 hrs

what I did not like was that the admin let me go through the whole registrations while only a few feet away - he could have just said something rather than having his back to me the whole time when i was in plain sight for about 10 minutes

nobody busted out for nearly 4 hrs

Why is this relevant when -

its just facts added - my decision was made "at the moment" - I was not going to wait - its my money and my decision and I respect the fact if they did not want to open another table.

With 15min blinds, that’s in level 16? Does the tournament start with blinds of 10/20 with their 75k starting stack?

So, you are mad because you feel it was the TD's job to keep track of people registering and make sure they know they will be an alternate.

I am guessing the tournament tables were out of sight from you, and that the TD has a policy of not answering questions from people considering entering the tournament. If neither of those is the case, I am, for the life of me, trying to figure out how you are putting the responsibility of informing new registrants that the tables are full on the TD.

I have shown up before the tournament has even started, and still been put on an alternates list. It never even occurred to me that I should be pissed and ask for a reduction in the rake. If it mattered to me, I should have been there earlier.

the blinds might have been 20 min in fact - I never found that out as I said it was pretty good structure - The room is one open room with everything in sight

I was not mad - I was not requesting a reduction in entry vig.

My question is - would you wait or would you go? There was no comment as to how long it would be for a seat to open or conditions as to when they would create another table - just a flat "you are first alternate" and turned his back to me.

It's not a mistake to have 2 tables in this tourney ..... Think about it if they open three tables and they have 6 players at the table you probably have three tables with players complaining about being short. And if one player busts you have a third handed table. They obviously had a good grip on the expected turnout.

Now if you told me that 2 hours in they had a long list of players then I would agree that only having 2 tables was a mistake.

Would I wait or would I go. Well it depends on if I wanted to play the tournament. I would probably not play this tournament even if there was no wait. But I know one thing ... If I really wanted to play it and it would upset me to wait .... I would be there early. I remember a time when I would arrive hours early to register for a tournament (back when many places capped the number of entries)

My players would scream bloody murder if we tried to start 4 handed.

I would say you're the exception.

I don't like bending over backwards for late entries.
Make them alternates and tell them to be on time next time.

I don't mind playing short handed, as I think I adjust better than most of my competition. But it does force you to play a wider range to compensate for for the greater blinds to hands ratio, which increases variance, which negates the whole reason why you are playing a deep stack tournament in the first place.

Now, I have gotten annoyed when there are 10 to 20 tables, and 3 or 4 players waiting, and it is a deep stack tournament with 30 minute levels, as it seems like it would be pretty easy to open a table and then pull 5 players from other tables. There isn't that much a difference between 9 handed and 10 handed play.

But then, I remember that I am an alternate because I couldn't get myself to the tournament on time and I get over it.