Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Casino & Cardroom Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-13-2013, 09:11 PM   #1
TheBritishLion
grinder
 
TheBritishLion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 589
INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

This incredible decision happened yesterday.

Basically it's all in on the turn.

I have 77 on a 10 J 7 A board.

River A

i turn over 77 for 777AA

Villain GETS UP FROM SEAT (like he's furious or something) and goes over to the roulette table. At this point i ask the dealer "is his hand not dead as he has left his seat no matter what it is?"

Dealer shrugs and i call floor.

as floor is walking over V comes back to the table and sits down...



turns over A 10.


Floor says his hand still stands as they have not been mucked?


WTF.
the day earlier i saw a guy have his hand mucked for getting up to speak to his friend, surely this is the same thing?

i got up and left. immediately before i put the guys head through the table.
TheBritishLion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 10:01 PM   #2
MJ88
veteran
 
MJ88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,991
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Most places will kill a hand almost immediately when player leaves table with action pending.
Most places will not kill a hand quickly when player leaves table briefly with action complete (i.e., both allin).
Villain is still a slowrolling POS, but floor decision is not especially surprising, let alone incredible.
MJ88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 10:05 PM   #3
Rush17
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Borgata/Parx
Posts: 5,974
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Why just say to yourself, "wtf?"

Why not call the Floor over and say to him:

"Wtf?" "A guys hand was just killed the other day for doing the exact same thing(bla bla bla)...what's going on here?!"

Speak up!
Rush17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 12:33 AM   #4
OneCrazyDuck
veteran
 
OneCrazyDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pond
Posts: 2,693
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Tournament or cash game?
OneCrazyDuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 12:46 AM   #5
Howard Beale
Formerly red
 
Howard Beale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Doing what my dog wants
Posts: 22,091
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush17 View Post
Why just say to yourself, "wtf?"

Why not call the Floor over and say to him:

"Wtf?" "A guys hand was just killed the other day for doing the exact same thing(bla bla bla)...what's going on here?!"

Speak up!
Often enough that's when you find out 'different day/different floor, different decision.'

Hopefully villain is a reg, though, so you can stick it to him as often as you can from now on.
Howard Beale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 10:24 AM   #6
johnny2toes
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 532
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Villain stood up when all action was completed and players with live hands were all-in. Most floor will not rule the hand dead, it's very different if he stood up on the turn when you shoved, went to the roulette table and came back to call. (Hand is dead.)

Villain's hand is live, and the best hand won at showdown. It would be quite bothering if it went the other way, bar obscure and rigid house rules.

People take slowrolls way too seriously. You have to smile and appreciate a work of art when it is performed, and from an esthetic point of view that was an absolute beauty of a slowroll. I would have bought villain a drink.
johnny2toes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 10:56 AM   #7
AngusThermopyle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AngusThermopyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 乱
Posts: 14,933
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny2toes View Post
and from an esthetic point of view that was an absolute beauty of a slowroll. I would have bought villain a drink.
It was incredibly stupid.

Dealer could have reached over and mucked his cards. Cranky Craig in the seat next to him could have shoved his face down cards into the muck.
AngusThermopyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 11:47 AM   #8
2OutsNoProb
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: BK, NY
Posts: 15,997
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

How far away is the roulette table? Doesn't really matter since the guy's hand should be dead regardless, but I'm wondering.
2OutsNoProb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 11:50 AM   #9
TheBritishLion
grinder
 
TheBritishLion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 589
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb View Post
How far away is the roulette table? Doesn't really matter since the guy's hand should be dead regardless, but I'm wondering.
about 5 meters .
TheBritishLion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 02:07 PM   #10
Suit
Pooh-Bah
 
Suit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,751
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

He had the best hand. Why are you so upset with losing to a better hand? Action was complete when he walked away from the table and his cards were never mucked. Most places/floors will rule this a live hand without some house rule that says you can't move away from the table. Someone else mentioned this... If he had gotten up and walked away before action was complete (before calling your allin bet) then yes, his hand is dead.

Stop trying to get a pot awarded to you that you didn't win based on a technicallity. It's rather unethical of you. It's poker where the best hand is supposed to win, not gotcha where you can steal a pot because you got slowrolled and tried to talk a floor into thinking you're right.

And also this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
It was incredibly stupid.

Dealer could have reached over and mucked his cards. Cranky Craig in the seat next to him could have shoved his face down cards into the muck.
He did get lucky in this sense.
Suit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 07:59 PM   #11
albedoa
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,042
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Suit if you're gonna lambast the guy, then at least tell us how far the player would have had to walk before you were to muck his hand.

Contribute to an actual conversation if you're going to resort to that kind of persecution.
albedoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 08:18 PM   #12
JDiamond364
old hand
 
JDiamond364's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
Suit if you're gonna lambast the guy, then at least tell us how far the player would have had to walk before you were to muck his hand.

Contribute to an actual conversation if you're going to resort to that kind of persecution.
Its not a matter of distance. If the dealer didn't kill his hand, its usually going to be live. Since the dealer didn't kill it, he was probably withing the house rules to move away from the table. Personally, I would have mucked him when he walked away (unless house rules say otherwise) and he would have been SOL.
JDiamond364 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 09:34 PM   #13
Rush17
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Borgata/Parx
Posts: 5,974
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suit View Post
He had the best hand. Why are you so upset with losing to a better hand? Action was complete when he walked away from the table and his cards were never mucked.
do you really think OP was upset just because he lost the hand?

if that were me and i was just a player in the game and not the one who actually played the hand with this guy?...i'd be pretty pissed about it.

for one, walking away from the game in the middle of a hand, when you *know* you are the winner of that hand, is not only being the biggest deuche possible, but, what about the rest of the players that would like to play another hand? did you forget the part that the dealer cant continue until this guy waltzes back from his victory lap? i don't know about you, but the games i play in, i have to pay a Time Charge for my seat, up to $10 every half hour. now, if everyone starts doing this, that means less hands every half hour. bottom line? i am now paying $ for a seat in which there are 0 hands getting dealt out. seem fair to you?

what about the dealer who is now fiddling her thumbs waiting for mr. hollywood to waltz back to table his hand? maybe she couldve gotten out another hand or two and received a few tips from her customers. ever think about that? seem fair to you?

do you really need to resort to some rule book that states that his hand is still live even if he walks away? the book is not set in stone, its a guideline that is sometimes overturned by common sense and fairness. this is one of those times if you ask me. or at least it should be. what you seem to be mistaking(i think) is for when someone turns over their hand at showdown, doesnt realize they have the best hand, and then villain trys to claim the pot on some sort of technicality. this isnt the case AT ALL!

unethical players suck. i would call the Floor(even if i was just a spectator in the game) and tell him that this player needs a warning so this crap doesnt happen again in the future cause if he does it again, his hand is dead. i think a good Floor would take that line.

Last edited by Rush17; 04-14-2013 at 09:44 PM.
Rush17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 10:00 PM   #14
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,885
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

LOL at anyone defending this bull****.

Any reputable room should kill his hand when he walks away from the table. He's abandoning his interest in the pot, same as if he'd mucked or if he'd walked away preflop before the action got to him. If he doesn't like it, tough ****, "protect your hand".

This isn't the world series of poker on ESPN, it's a low stakes cash game and his hollywooding is wasting everyone's time.
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 10:39 PM   #15
Trishthafish
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the moon
Posts: 273
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

I can beat that story. The other day at an small club in L.A. Seat 2, me, and seat 3 are showing our hands and chopping small side pot. Seat 8 (8 handed game) is all-in and crying as usual. Seat 8 stands up, goes behind dealer, hands seat 1 his cards saying look at this ****. Seat one looks at hand, bystander sees its good for half the pot, announces it, seat 1, who is walking away, runs back, grabs the cards, turns them over in front of me and seat one and now shows his hand. FLOOR! haha Floor says it didn't touch the muck so hand is live. hahaha.
Trishthafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 03:29 AM   #16
frommagio
Pooh-Bah
 
frommagio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,457
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Are you saying that seat 8 walked over to seat 1 to show the cards, seat 1 was about to leave, and instead seat 1 came back and turned over seat 8's hand and it was good for a split pot? Or something like that?
frommagio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 10:52 AM   #17
llDayo
grinder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 462
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trishthafish View Post
I can beat that story. The other day at an small club in L.A. Seat 2, me, and seat 3 are showing our hands and chopping small side pot. Seat 8 (8 handed game) is all-in and crying as usual. Seat 8 stands up, goes behind dealer, hands seat 1 his cards saying look at this ****. Seat one looks at hand, bystander sees its good for half the pot, announces it, seat 1, who is walking away, runs back, grabs the cards, turns them over in front of me and seat one and now shows his hand. FLOOR! haha Floor says it didn't touch the muck so hand is live. hahaha.
Taking the cards away from the table and behind the dealer would seem to be grounds for disqualification of the hand. It wouldn't be any different than a card bouncing off the table onto the floor, imo.
llDayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #18
Wackabrew
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philly Burbs
Posts: 59
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush17 View Post
do you really think OP was upset just because he lost the hand?

YES. THE TITLE OF THE THREAD INDICATES THAT OP THOUGHT FLOOR'S DECISION WAS BAD. WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DECISION? TO RULE THE HAND LIVE

if that were me and i was just a player in the game and not the one who actually played the hand with this guy?...i'd be pretty pissed about it.

for one, walking away from the game in the middle of a hand, when you *know* you are the winner of that hand, is not only being the biggest deuche possible, but, what about the rest of the players that would like to play another hand? did you forget the part that the dealer cant continue until this guy waltzes back from his victory lap? i don't know about you, but the games i play in, i have to pay a Time Charge for my seat, up to $10 every half hour. now, if everyone starts doing this, that means less hands every half hour. bottom line? i am now paying $ for a seat in which there are 0 hands getting dealt out. seem fair to you?

what about the dealer who is now fiddling her thumbs waiting for mr. hollywood to waltz back to table his hand? maybe she couldve gotten out another hand or two and received a few tips from her customers. ever think about that? seem fair to you?

NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT THE BEST HAND WON AT SHOWDOWN. I FEEL BAD FOR THE OTHER PLAYERS PAYING A TIME CHARGE AND DEALER FOR NOT GETTING A FEW EXTRA BUCKS, BUT, FAIRNESS TO THEM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS SITUATION

do you really need to resort to some rule book that states that his hand is still live even if he walks away? the book is not set in stone, its a guideline that is sometimes overturned by common sense and fairness.

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT DOUCHEY PLAYER SHOULD LOSE THE POT FOR BEING A DOUCHE. FINE IF THAT'S YOUR OPINION, BUT COMPLETELY IRRELEVENT

this is one of those times if you ask me. or at least it should be. what you seem to be mistaking(i think) is for when someone turns over their hand at showdown, doesnt realize they have the best hand, and then villain trys to claim the pot on some sort of technicality. this isnt the case AT ALL!

WHAT ABOUT THIS SITUATION IS UNFAIR? VILLIAN IS A SLOWROLLING SCUMBAG, BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE WON THE POT. UNFAIR WOULD BE TO AWARD THE POT TO THE SECOND BEST HAND AT SHOWDOWN WHEN THERE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE A (CONSISTANTLY EFORCED) RULE THAT HANDS ARE DEAD WHEN PLAYER WALKS AWAY FROM THE TABLE

unethical players suck.

NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS UNETHICAL. DOUCHEY? YES. UNETHICAL? NO.

i would call the Floor(even if i was just a spectator in the game) and tell him that this player needs a warning so this crap doesnt happen again in the future cause if he does it again, his hand is dead. i think a good Floor would take that line.

ASSUMING THAT THERE IS SOME SORT OF A RULE THAT COVERS THIS SITUATION, THIS IS THE ONLY PART OF THIS POST I AGREE WITH
.
Wackabrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 02:14 PM   #19
Suit
Pooh-Bah
 
Suit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,751
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
Suit if you're gonna lambast the guy, then at least tell us how far the player would have had to walk before you were to muck his hand.

Contribute to an actual conversation if you're going to resort to that kind of persecution.
Who said it matters how far the guy walks away? If the dealer doesn't muck his hand, it is live. If the dealer mucks this DB's hand and when he gets back from his victory lap he throws a fit cuz his hand is gone, guess what... I get called to the table and rule it dead. This is the chance he took walking away. Fortunately for him the dealer didn't muck it. Like I said, barring a house rule that specifically says your hand is dead if you leave the table, this guy's hand is live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush17 View Post
do you really think OP was upset just because he lost the hand?

No, i think he's upset because this guy slowrolled him and he then couldn't talk the floor into killing his hand so that he could take down a pot that he didn't deserve.

if that were me and i was just a player in the game and not the one who actually played the hand with this guy?...i'd be pretty pissed about it.

for one, walking away from the game in the middle of a hand, when you *know* you are the winner of that hand,
Nowhere did it say that he *knew* he was the winner, maybe it took him that 5 meter walk to realize "oh ma gerd, that Ace gave me a bigger boat!!"

is not only being the biggest deuche possible, but, what about the rest of the players that would like to play another hand? did you forget the part that the dealer cant continue until this guy waltzes back from his victory lap? i don't know about you, but the games i play in, i have to pay a Time Charge for my seat, up to $10 every half hour. now, if everyone starts doing this, that means less hands every half hour. bottom line? i am now paying $ for a seat in which there are 0 hands getting dealt out. seem fair to you?

what about the dealer who is now fiddling her thumbs waiting for mr. hollywood to waltz back to table his hand? maybe she couldve gotten out another hand or two and received a few tips from her customers. ever think about that? seem fair to you?

none of this has to do with whether or not the guys hand should be ruled dead, which is the issue here. The OP wasn't titled "slowroll caused dealer to lose tips and players to miss out on more hands per hour"

do you really need to resort to some rule book that states that his hand is still live even if he walks away? the book is not set in stone, its a guideline that is sometimes overturned by common sense and fairness. this is one of those times if you ask me. or at least it should be. what you seem to be mistaking(i think) is for when someone turns over their hand at showdown, doesnt realize they have the best hand, and then villain trys to claim the pot on some sort of technicality. this isnt the case AT ALL!

Ok. Fair enough, in your poker room you can punish everyone for doing stupid things, whether they are against the rules or not

unethical players suck. i would call the Floor(even if i was just a spectator in the game) and tell him that this player needs a warning so this crap doesnt happen again in the future cause if he does it again, his hand is dead. i think a good Floor would take that line.

I also would give this player a warning. Telling him how fortunate he is to still have cards when he returned to the table. Just because I said that his hand should be live doesn't mean I agree with what he did. A warning is definitely needed here. And I would have no problem with a dealer mucking the hand in this spot.
Suit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 02:32 PM   #20
bulls_horn
Pooh-Bah
 
bulls_horn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,406
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

I'm with Suit here. Op has every right to be furious over the total lack of class and ettiquette shown by Villain, but not because he wasn't awarded the pot. All the rules had been followed correctly up to the point the $$ went in, and action was complete. Like it or not, Villain sucked out and deserves the pot (along with his KITN).
bulls_horn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 02:37 PM   #21
albedoa
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,042
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suit View Post
Who said it matters how far the guy walks away? If the dealer doesn't muck his hand, it is live. If the dealer mucks this DB's hand and when he gets back from his victory lap he throws a fit cuz his hand is gone, guess what... I get called to the table and rule it dead.
Sorry, let me ask the question that I thought I was asking: under what circumstances, if any, do you think an unattended and untabled hand should be mucked by either the dealer or the floor at showdown?
albedoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 02:39 PM   #22
AngusThermopyle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AngusThermopyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 乱
Posts: 14,933
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls_horn View Post
I'm with Suit here. Op has every right to be furious over the total lack of class and ettiquette shown by Villain, but not because he wasn't awarded the pot. All the rules had been followed correctly up to the point the $$ went in, and action was complete. Like it or not, Villain sucked out and deserves the pot (along with his KITN).
OP pointed out that under a similar situation, the hand was mucked.

So, the questions are:

1. What is the House rule, and was it followed? If it was not followed, why not?

2. Are there two sets of rules, ie Rule A for Friends of the House and Rule B for the rest of the players?
AngusThermopyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 03:16 PM   #23
frommagio
Pooh-Bah
 
frommagio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,457
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

We all know that different dealers will handle the same situation differently, that different rooms will have different rules, and that different supervisors will make different rulings even within the same room. There are very few absolute answers. It's just an oddity of this game we play.
frommagio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 03:26 PM   #24
Suit
Pooh-Bah
 
Suit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,751
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
Sorry, let me ask the question that I thought I was asking: under what circumstances, if any, do you think an unattended and untabled hand should be mucked by either the dealer or the floor at showdown?
In the same post I said...

Quote:
A warning is definitely needed here. And I would have no problem with a dealer mucking the hand in this spot.
I would like to see the dealer muck a hand at showdown when the player leaves the table. By all means give them a couple seconds to make sure they're actually walking off, but in the OP it was stated he went 5 meters and then came back. To me I would think that would take all of 5 seconds and I don't fault the dealer for not mucking it. Much longer than that and I'd say muck it.

As a floor, I will not kill the hand if the dealer didn't muck it. Unless I am called to the table to find the player is still not at the table and the question is "should I muck it or wait?" I'll say muck it.

If the player is facing action and walks away for a couple seconds and then wants to come back and act, no way, then I expect to be called to the table and I will kill the hand. My room does enforce a rule about leaving the table with action pending.

Hope this helps.
Suit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 05:16 PM   #25
Rush17
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Borgata/Parx
Posts: 5,974
Re: INCREDIBLE floor decision, biggest slow roll ever.

Suit:

Ok, I get where you're coming from a bit more now that you've made a few more responses, but, how can you say his behavior was ethical?

You said that you agreed that the guy was being a deuche, but often times when someone's being a deuche, they're actually portraying an unethical act or behavior.

Maybe it doesn't clearly state in the rules book that his actions are wrong or against the rules, but there are tons of gray areas(usually this is where a lot of the ethics lie in poker) that just don't have a rule that's adhered to it. The guy didn't act in a proper manner. He went completely against the grain in a very negative way *even if he deserves the pot*. Keep in mind that, even when players do unethical things at the table, that it, unfortunately will not be enough to kill their hand or to award the pot to someone else etc.. Does it still make them unethical though? Yup, it sure does.
Rush17 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive