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“I folded the naked ace and top two”

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02-29-2024 , 04:50 AM

#1

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,329

Hi all,

Playing plo, the flop and turn have been dealt and there is a $100 bet from a bad reg and a raise all in by a first timer noob rec to $295, on J742ccc, and while the bettor tanks a pro reg sitting to the bettor’s immediate right whispers to her bf also pro playing “I folded the naked A and top two,” loud enough for everyone on that side of the table to hear it, including the reg facing the all in bet.

She quickly says sorry I thought they were all in. The rec gets called a few seconds later and the bad reg wins with a Q-high flush against the rec’s 9-high flush. The noob rec is exasperated and calls the floor. What should happen?

Thanks,
DT

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02-29-2024 , 05:15 AM

#2

javi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,233

They get a warning.

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02-29-2024 , 10:09 AM

#3

Didace

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,890

Quote:

Originally Posted by javi

They get a warning.

Is there any other possible answer?

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02-29-2024 , 10:34 AM

#4

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,638

Several month ban assuming no option to make player whole.

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02-29-2024 , 10:45 AM

#5

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk

The noob rec is exasperated and calls the floor. What should happen?

Any reputable supervisor should give the guy as well as the table a warning not to talk about a hand in progress. If he's already been warned, he should hand him a rack and tell him he can come back in 24hrs.

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02-29-2024 , 10:45 AM

#6

Grimstard

banned

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 457

Off with her head.

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02-29-2024 , 11:07 AM

#7

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

Is there any other possible answer?

There has to be one, otherwise OP wouldn't have made this thread?

Sounds like a clear and obvious OPTAH violation resulting in a warning not to do it again. But that's not what happened or not what OP was looking for as a penalty.

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02-29-2024 , 12:08 PM

#8

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

We can't unring the bell, and the pro reg seems apologetic for what seems to be her honest mistake. Warn and move on.

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02-29-2024 , 12:13 PM

#9

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,638

Unless you can prove it wasn't collusion it should be treated as such for the talker.

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02-29-2024 , 01:07 PM

#10

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Unless you can prove it wasn't collusion it should be treated as such for the talker.

So you want to give her a warning for collusion? Doesn't change anything, but OK..

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02-29-2024 , 01:35 PM

#11

Didace

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,890

How do you prove something wasn't collusion?

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02-29-2024 , 03:03 PM

#12

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,638

It's tough. That's why the few months ban is likely.

I'd treat it closer to reaching over and turning over another players cards mid hand than nothing, but most people seem to want to think it's nothing.

So whatever you'd do in that situation but not quite as bad.

Last edited by pwnsall; 02-29-2024 at 03:08 PM.

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02-29-2024 , 03:15 PM

#13

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

It's tough. That's why the few months ban is likely.

Wait, are you serious with that ban talk?

The situation here might be a tiny bit more severe because we're talking about a reg and a very specific description of the hand but stuff like that happens all the time and I've never seen anyone getting banned for it.

Would get pretty lonely in the poker room if they banned everyone who open folded because they thought the hand is over or super obviously showed that the river would have brought them straight or flush if they didn't fold earlier.

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02-29-2024 , 03:16 PM

#14

Jackontheturn

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 436

Doing it while one player is facing an all in bet is bad enough to give them the boot for the day, even for a first offense. If a repeat offender, then indefinite ban.

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02-29-2024 , 03:44 PM

#15

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,638

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

Wait, are you serious with that ban talk?

The situation here might be a tiny bit more severe because we're talking about a reg and a very specific description of the hand but stuff like that happens all the time and I've never seen anyone getting banned for it.

Would get pretty lonely in the poker room if they banned everyone who open folded because they thought the hand is over or super obviously showed that the river would have brought them straight or flush if they didn't fold earlier.

Those aren't the same really.

Ideal solution is have them pay the money lost so like 600ish but don't think they can do that.

If the rules weren't so lax about it people wouldn't do it so often.

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02-29-2024 , 04:04 PM

#16

Javanewt

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,781

We all make mistakes. Seems like an honest one. Doesn't matter that they are BF/GF -- they could have just known each other or played together for a while and it could have happened. A warning should suffice.

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02-29-2024 , 04:05 PM

#17

Javanewt

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,781

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Unless you can prove it wasn't collusion it should be treated as such for the talker.

Who, exactly, is colluding? You think she told her BF so the guy next to her could hear because she was colluding with him?

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02-29-2024 , 04:48 PM

#18

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Those aren't the same really.

I am so confused by your line of thinking and need to start somewhere. Here, are you saying that showing your folded cards while under the impression that the hand is over is fundamentally different from saying what you folded while under the impression that the hand is over?

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02-29-2024 , 06:47 PM

#19

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,638

Showing your cards before the hand is over is bad, depends on action a bit, if she showed the ace blocker then it would be very bad. I may have misunderstood madlex. Can't speak to every spot.

Telling someone on the river a key card is missing with action pending in an asymmetric information spot is about as bad as it gets. Either she pays 600 or banned for a long time.

Warning is like doing nothing.

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02-29-2024 , 11:52 PM

#20

Jackontheturn

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Showing your cards before the hand is over is bad, depends on action a bit, if she showed the ace blocker then it would be very bad. I may have misunderstood madlex. Can't speak to every spot.

Telling someone on the river a key card is missing with action pending in an asymmetric information spot is about as bad as it gets. Either she pays 600 or banned for a long time.

Warning is like doing nothing.

There's no legal authority to enforce a $600 payout, but warning is too lax.

The warning is a one-day ban, and if it happens again banned for life.

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03-01-2024 , 03:11 AM

#21

JimL

adept

Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 965

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Those aren't the same really.

Ideal solution is have them pay the money lost so like 600ish but don't think they can do that.

If the rules weren't so lax about it people wouldn't do it so often.

Players don't do it because the rules are lax, they talk about their hands because poker is a social game and people have regret syndrome.

If talking about what they folded was handled as drastically as you are advocating, the room would be empty and few new players would continue to play after they were banned once for what they thought was friendly, social behavior.

It is wrong and players should be taught/warned, but you are going overbiard.

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03-01-2024 , 11:09 AM

#22

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,638

Not talking about what cards you folded before the hand is over is a pretty low bar, but most in here think it is supposed to be even lower.

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03-01-2024 , 11:12 AM

#23

Didace

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,890

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Not talking about what cards you folded before the hand is over is a pretty low bar, but most in here think it is supposed to be even lower.

No, just that your proposed penalties are over the top for one or two instances.

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03-01-2024 , 11:28 AM

#24

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Not talking about what cards you folded before the hand is over is a pretty low bar, but most in here think it is supposed to be even lower.

People make mistakes. There's no indication it wasn't an honest mistake that she felt bad about.

Pretty sure all of us have seen blatant OPTAH violations over the years. Does anyone remember seeing a player getting a ban for it unless there was (accusations of) collusion involved?

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03-01-2024 , 12:12 PM

#25

Grimstard

banned

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 457

I’ve been banned for life for less. I stand by my statement. Off with her head.

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