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“I folded the naked ace and top two”

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03-01-2024 , 12:32 PM

#26

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,637

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

No, just that your proposed penalties are over the top for one or two instances.

Paying the ~600 is a perfectly just penalty. Feeling sorry is worthless. A warning is also worthless.

People are also punished irl for "honest" mistakes all the time. Running a stop sign while on the phone could kill someone.

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03-01-2024 , 12:41 PM

#27

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

First of all I don't even think a property under a gaming commission's jurisdiction is even allowed to charge a "penalty" of $600 for making an honest mistake but even if they were, it would be horrible for the game. No one would play poker anymore.

If you don't stop at a stop sign you can very easily kill someone, which is why you'll get a ticket if caught. Saying "I folded X" when you thought everyone was all in is not comparable to killing someone.

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03-01-2024 , 12:44 PM

#28

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,781

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Paying the ~600 is a perfectly just penalty. Feeling sorry is worthless. A warning is also worthless.

People are also punished irl for "honest" mistakes all the time. Running a stop sign while on the phone could kill someone.

LOL. Nice comparison.

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03-01-2024 , 02:21 PM

#29

BigBlue56

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,964

Floor should warn the player for a first time offense.
Hand them a rack if it's an ongoing problem.

Is it possible that the player who spoke was lying about their hand?
Still worth a warning/penalty for OPTAH/influencing.

What if the player claims to have been talking about a previous hand, not the current one?

For those that advocate stronger penalties:
What about the player who reacts obviously after folding, without speaking?

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03-01-2024 , 02:23 PM

#30

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,888

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimstard

I’ve been banned for life for less. I stand by my statement. Off with her head.

Please tell us what you think is less.

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03-01-2024 , 03:07 PM

#31

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

Please tell us what you think is less.

That would only be his/her version of the story anyway.

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03-01-2024 , 04:16 PM

#32

Grimstard

banned

Join Date: Jan 2024 Posts: 457

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

Please tell us what you think is less.

“Suspicious gaming activity”. Idk they won’t give me a straight answer. Probably basically nothing

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03-01-2024 , 10:33 PM

#33

Jeffage

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 8,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk

Hi all,

Playing plo, the flop and turn have been dealt and there is a $100 bet from a bad reg and a raise all in by a first timer noob rec to $295, on J742ccc, and while the bettor tanks a pro reg sitting to the bettor’s immediate right whispers to her bf also pro playing “I folded the naked A and top two,” loud enough for everyone on that side of the table to hear it, including the reg facing the all in bet.

She quickly says sorry I thought they were all in. The rec gets called a few seconds later and the bad reg wins with a Q-high flush against the rec’s 9-high flush. The noob rec is exasperated and calls the floor. What should happen?

Thanks,
DT

Reg wins the pot as he did nothing wrong. The woman should be tossed for the night if not longer. Sorry isn’t really good enough. But in many cses they will just be given a warning.

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03-02-2024 , 12:31 AM

#34

Dominic

Tripod

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 74,272

death

Quote

03-03-2024 , 12:14 PM

#35

TheGramuel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,747

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Several month ban assuming no option to make player whole.

No way are they getting even a 24 hour ban for this. It's a warning and nothing more.

There's nothing in OP about them even knowing each other etc so proving "collusion" rather than just a **** up is going to be tough here.

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03-03-2024 , 12:20 PM

#36

TheGramuel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 7,747

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Paying the ~600 is a perfectly just penalty.

LOL.

What about had the other person won? What would the punishment be then? Would they have to pay $600 to the other player who lost even if they had helped them?

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03-03-2024 , 01:15 PM

#37

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,637

Yes, obviously

Just like 300 though. Gotta make restitution to the injured party when you break the rules and harm them.

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03-04-2024 , 10:29 AM

#38

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,781

What if she said, "I folded the three of diamonds"? Is that a $300+ penalty or ban, too?

We don't know what the rules of this room are (and I don't think any of you do, either), but if the rule says something like, "no talking about your hand while cards are still live," then mentioning the 3d is breaking the rules, too.

Poker players are all in a lot of trouble if you guys are the brush.

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03-05-2024 , 12:53 AM

#39

JimL

adept

Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 965

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlue56

What if the player claims to have been talking about a previous hand, not the current one?

For those that advocate stronger penalties:
What about the player who reacts obviously after folding, without speaking?

This.

It is easy to make your folded hand obvious without saying a word.

Furthermore, as you mention, what if it is a lie. We have all played with players who have said they folded the nuts every other hand. There is also the fact that there are always the inevitable jokes where people say they folded pocket aces preflop.

These people are annoying morons, but the death penalty seems rather harsh for them.

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03-05-2024 , 03:11 AM

#40

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,882

Yeah I just don’t see the obvious motivation of messing with someone here. It seems like a legitimately horrible mistake. Give them an extremely stern warning or 30 minute penalty and move on. Asking for a monetary penalty is the wrong way to go about preventing these things. If you think this is a purposeful thing the right way to go about it is to ban for some amount of time.

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03-05-2024 , 08:37 AM

#41

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,637

Why does it matter if it's purposeful or a previous hand or a lie? Can I just lie to influence action or mess with people?

Poker players are in a lot of trouble if we let them act like children and get away with it.

About 70% of the thread wants to effectively do nothing it looks like.

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03-05-2024 , 10:39 AM

#42

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,888

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

About 70% of the thread wants to effectively do nothing it looks like.

And you want to give the death penalty for not coming to a complete stop before turning right.

Quote

03-05-2024 , 11:29 AM

#43

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,637

I'd say more like rear ending someone while texting. Make them pay and possibly prove they can drive or take away the privilege.

Quote

03-05-2024 , 09:32 PM

#44

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,882

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Why does it matter if it's purposeful or a previous hand or a lie? Can I just lie to influence action or mess with people?

Poker players are in a lot of trouble if we let them act like children and get away with it.

About 70% of the thread wants to effectively do nothing it looks like.

Because we usually consider intent when considering punishment and poker is no exception. We also consider the feasibility of a punishment. It’s not feasible to give a monetary penalty for this.

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03-05-2024 , 11:43 PM

#45

franklymydearirais

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 212

There isn't really much anyone can do but this hand does serve as a good reminder that you should never show your cards or talk about your cards with anyone at the table for any reason precisely because you can end up revealing information that is material to the hand. Besides, you want to absorb information, not leak it.

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03-06-2024 , 01:02 PM

#46

Your Mom

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,451

This is far worse than a normal OPTAH violation, even if it was unintentional. If I was the aggrieved party, I'd want far more than a warning. One day ban seems about right.

Quote

03-06-2024 , 02:44 PM

#47

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,460

Quote:

Originally Posted by Your Mom

This is far worse than a normal OPTAH violation, even if it was unintentional. If I was the aggrieved party, I'd want far more than a warning. One day ban seems about right.

Far worse because of the results?

Other than that, it's not different from someone saying "I folded AA" and significantly less worse than someone tabling their hand with multiway action pending.

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