Playing a sunday tourney at the local casino and we were pretty deep. Blinds were pretty big about 15 people left don't exactly remember blind size, but I was in the bb. Dealer deals out the cards and utg raises and I happen to look down, I see 3 cards notify the dealer he immediately calls the floor and they rule my hand dead and I forfeit my blinds. Is this standard I mean very deep in tourney and I'm just forfeiting my blinds by a dealer misdeal I don't understand.

Does it suck? Sure. Is there something you could do about it? Absolutely.

Only one person cares if you have the proper cards: you.

I watch every deal. I even count the cards as they come out. I check the quantity of my cards as soon as I get them. When I don't do this and I end up with too many cards but don't say anything until after someone's acted, I accept that my hand is dead.

You had a lot of time from receiving your last card to the finish of the deal to notice you had too many cards. Hopefully this is a lesson learned for next time.

No you are not forfeiting your blinds becaus eo fthe dealer error.

You are forfeiting them for your error. You need to pay attention and point out the error immediately. .... not when you happen to look down after there has been action on the hand

these responses were spot on. Players need to start realizing their responsibility in the game. Bottom line is if you have a financial interest in anything, pay attention

That's right. The dealer didn't do anything wrong. Giving you three cards is perfectly normal and he shouldn't be faulted for it.

You are under the delusion that the dealer is there to run the game and make sure everything is right.

I go back to the days when the games in San Jose were self dealt. Everybody watched the dealer for mistakes and protected themselves since there was nobody else there to do it for them.

Then house dealers came in and everybody thought they could relax. The dealer would take care of everything. Wasn't the house collecting a ton more rake? Weren't we expected to tip the dealer?

People were in for a rude awakening. Some went back to their old "protect yourself at all times" mentality. Some settled somewhere in between. Players who came to the game since then do have the "dealer or house will make it right" bias. Some learn the hard way.

In your case, I have seen the Floor scramble the 3 cards, pull one out, expose it and use it as the burn card. To me, that seems fair.

Is anybody claiming this?

Are you suggesting people not protect their hands?

I can shake my fist at the heavens all I like after the fact, but I'd rather just protect myself against mistakes. Maybe a ruling will go my way, maybe it won't. Either way, it brings a bad vibe to the table. Why chance it?

If you read the rest of my post you know I protect myself at all times.

Despite having the table pay roughly $250 an hour for the privilege of playing at a San Jose casino.

I apologize; I couldn't figure out in which camp you were placing yourself.

To be clear: nobody is suggesting the dealer didn't make a mistake. But you can't get un-hit by a bus.

The next person who goes through an entire 8 hour, strike that call it 6 with breaks, shift in any job without making a single mistake gets a cookie and a high five if you smiled the whole time. Everyone is fallable* which is why you should protect yourself at all times by paying attention to the game.

Agreed.

But there are some dealers who just don't get it. And they are protected by the house and by their fellow dealers.

Also, I pointed out a possible way to rectify the mistake. Why not try to minimize the damage?

even a minimum wage cashier is responsible for their mistakes, all a dealer loses is maybe the tip for that hand and a couple minutes waiting for the floor

you guys have a very easy job relative to your level of compensation (at least in non-pooled rooms), and hating on the players makes you look pretty bad

interesting that the forum dealers quickly steeped up to post that the OP, a recreational player and the lifeblood of poker for all players and dealers, was in the wrong here

yes, op can and should be more vigilant, but the reality is that a dealer mistake probably cost him some blinds (unless of course OP would have been dealt AA and had them cracked, etc).

You guys are funny.

I am incredibly pro-player. I am attempting to help this player protect himself.

When a dealer comes on here, I'll happily give tips on how to prevent mistakes. When a room manager comes on here, I'll happily share opinions on how to handle mistakes.

As far as I know, CaDDyKaDDy does not have the power to control all dealers or go back in time. So what does it matter that the dealer made a mistake? We all have the power to protect ourselves against such mistakes. Isn't learning those skills more valuable than whining about something that happened in the past and over which we have no control for the future?

No wonder some people are perpetually grumpy. They're trying to do the impossible.

Thats great and all but you know some players watch other players and how they look at their cards to pick up tells, and I heard somewhere about not looking at your cards until its your turn to act because you dont want to give away tells. Maybe its just me

I believe it's possible to note where your cards are and feel that you have the proper quantity while also keeping your eyes everywhere else.

I believe it's also possible to watch the pitch and notice how many cards come out.

I believe these things because I do them all the time.

Yes, this dealer made a mistake. And the resolution of that mistake sucked. I'd rather call attention to the mistake at a time when it won't affect me nearly as negatively.

Is this wrong?

You have to watch everything while driving. If you hit a jaywalking pedestrian, is your excuse that you were watching the light at the intersection up ahead? Even if it's determined you're 100% in the right, does that help erase a horrible situation?

It's because I'm a dealer that I know how much many dealers suck. I get to hear them talk when players aren't around. I'm not trusting those folks. I'm protecting my hand.

I honestly read the thread title and thought it said "dealer down". I thought someone had visited violence upon a dealer.
/derail

Question: Assuming a well run card room where the dealers and floor know the rules, how much action and/or additional cards dealt need to take place before this is a misdeal?

hey, people make mistakes and yah... your money is on the line... pay attention...but sheesh... "ooops we made a mistake, sorry, your money is forfeit" sucks.

Sometimes its impossible to tell when two cards stick together and is delt to you at the same time, this has nothing to do about PROTECTING your self, I cant help but notice in all of pfaps threads about this he talks about protecting, this was just a freak accident, and the floor did not handle it right, it should have been a re deal/thread.

on the bright side this keeps you from making a dumb mistake OOP, and gives the other players a chance to bust enhancing your chance to win real cash money

Best and truest statement I've read. Anyone who deals or has dealt knows the horrible people that claim to be dealers and have to make up for their awful habits by being as efficient as possible. And lord help anyone in a pooled room who has to hear the hph rundown and find people in the teens.

If the error is realized before action takes place, it's a misdeal. If action takes place, it's a dead hand. As others have stated, make sure you have the proper number of cards as soon as they are pitched to you. Cards get sticky sometimes.

RRoP:
The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands. (If two players have acted in turn, the deal must be played to conclusion

• An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence.

Your hand is declared dead if:

• The hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that particular game

Once action occurs, a misdeal can no longer be declared. The hand will be played to conclusion, and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands.

Of course one should try to protect their hand.

...and it sucks that for a couple hundred bucks an hour you can't depend on anything that resembles customer service.

I was surprised no one mentioned this earlier, but there doesn't appear to be significant action with only one player raising so far.

Sounds like a misdeal to me.

Did utg+1 fold? Could that be considered "action" by a 2nd player?

My guess is the UTG raise caused a quick fold or two before OP spoke up.

In a tourny, I wouldn't deviate from the "significant action" rule.

However, if this was a cash game, even if UTG raised and UTG+1 mucked, I'm still inclined to rule it a misdeal. I understand "significant action" is two or more, but if I get to the table and find that OP spoke up in good faith I'm going to give it to him. We all know how fast the first two players can act, and I don't want to punish the guy for doing his best.

Or, if it's a small NL game, I'd kill his hand and peel the $2 (or $5) out of the rack and give it back to him after the hand. I'd rather do that than declaring a misdeal after significant action in order to be fair to the UTG raiser.

I understand some rooms would never allow this, but "giving back" the $2 is going to make everyone feel much better about the whole thing. I would hate to work in room (and probably wouldn't) that didn't empower their floors to do as such.