Right.

But, for the record, I believe that Brandon, from what I saw, handled the situation well and was completely within his rights to question the ruling. However Carroll should have kept his mouth shut. He was not involved in the hand and should have sat quietly by. He could have waited and gone to speak with Jack or the floorperson after the hand was completed or during the next break.

But you are definitely right about the intentional thing. Tournament directors and floorpeople are not stupid. They see LOTS of different situations all the time.

I am going to respond to most of your post at a later time but I did want to point out one glaring thing from above...

The WPT does not have rules, nor do they run poker tournaments in B&M casinos. The WPT is mearly a production company that films poker tournaments to then air on television and distribute on DVDs. The best way to put it is this...

ESPN is to the WSOP as the WPT is to the North American Poker Championship.

Harrahs runs the WSOP. Fallsview runs the NAPC (I just finished flooring that event).

ESPN films the WSOP. WPT films the NAPC.

ESPN has no say in how the WSOP is run (the rules that need to be followed). Neither does the WPT.

Do not be confused by this. Every WPT event is an independant poker tournament run by that property (Bellagio, Fallsview, Mirage, etc). The staff of the property run the event and therefore use the rules that property uses. The WPT does not care about these rules, or even what kind of event it is. You have seen the Limit Championship that was filmed and aired by the WPT, right?

I am not saying that most of the stops on the WPT don't use the rules that you have cited, just that the WPT has nothing to do with those rules.


I'll get back to you on the rest of the things I disagree with...

Ya, after I typed that I almost went back and *corrected* it to "events on the WPT", but got lazy. =) I figured everyone would get the idea.

I am surprised at the lengthy posts by rule nits attempting to appeal to authority to justify a bad call. Most players intuitively understood that Losev made a string bet, and that it didn't matter if it was on purpose or not, and that of the both rulings on this hand (that what he did was OK) were wrong. If those rulings were technically correct, then the rules need to be changed. It really is that simple.

For those who think that Losev deserved only a warning, there is this further info:

Be Careful How You Move Your Chips
I would certainly not want to be on an overcrowded lifeboat with any of you rule nits in charge, because the boat would sink before you figured out who to throw overboard.

[insert cheap shot about throwing me overboard here]

EDIT: FWIW, I believe that this swing of 1,500,000 chips was enough of a factor to change the makeup of the final table.

OK Vogel, what was the correct ruling that the floor should have made? Remember, your reply is going to give everyone a good estimate of your IQ, birdbrain.

passive aggression is the new hawtness


although to be honest ... duck may be an expert here

am I the only person who thinks Losev's move could very easily have been calculated and deliberate regardless of whether he's staring Cantu down or not?

He's chip leader FFS 7 days into the ME...he's not a newb.

Sure he couldve done it deliberately. I dont think so though. Maybe a 10% chance of it.

Well i think you're right, and I started the thread. So you win.

Very bad ruling imo. Looks like a string bet to me.

This was my sentiment. You could just see that he recognizes that maybe he did something wrong, but has no idea, then knows he is being made fun of as carroll and cantu say things and laugh while looking at him. I dont blame him for telling them to stfu or anything else. Awkward scenario all together.

[]This means he is good at poker and not a newb
[]This means he knows the rulebook

I'm used to having a line on the table that you must put the chips across to bet. Watching the video again it doesn't look like he moved past what would be the line on most tables. It didn't look like he was watching Cantu while he did it. I know each time they recreated what the guy did the further the chips got pushed in and then after the ruling, they just called the floor back for spite when the guy vented in russian.

So what was Losev's hand?

Haven't read the thread but this was clearly a case of a floorman with too much pride.

Cantu's suggestion of bringing over another floorman was the way to go. Then the guy could have just been overruled and saved some face. As it went down, looks like a single floorman had the final say and wouldn't go back on his initial (wrong) decision.

Actually, the 2nd "floorman" was the WSOP Tournament Director, Jack Effel.

Bad ruling, but Cantu should have raised!

The floor rulings (or lack of them) at the WSOP this year were shameful. Scotty gets away with amazing abuse; Phil gets a well-deserved penalty rescinded; and an obvious bet pullback is allowed to stand (among other floor errors). These floor people are the best in the world?!

They work at the Rio.

Beat: I was turned down for temp employment during the 2007 WSOP.

Brag: I have supervised (nearly) every single hand of every single WPT events held in Canada in three years; I am the only floor supervisor in Canada to have done so.

Dealer didnt miss it, he confirmed how far out he went when Jack asked him how far he moved the stack, go away.

Fortunately, you don't even own a TV much less have an understanding of how to produce a quality TV program.

I think the biggest mistake in the hand is Hero not reraising.

michael carol sure looked like a tool in there

wow thats Bull**** ruling