Room running HH promotion. Must be a raked pot (>$10), minimum of 4 players delt in and both cards must play. Showdown not required. Which means if flop is AAA, player holding A,2 can qualify if the hand ends on the flop with quad aces and duece kicker.

I've recently takem advantage of this myself at 1/2 holding Ace rag on an AAA flop by open shoving $800 into a pot of $14 making everyone fold when HH was worth $1k .

Here is a hand I witnessed that I think crosses a line into outright cheating, though I just remained silient cause I wasn't involved.

3 way limped pot, flop 666. BB checks, next to act bets $5, shorty on button calls, BB shoves for $300ish, fold and button calls off the $17 still in his stack. BB is pissed at the call and tables 6,8 for quad sixes with 8 kicker and two cards left to come. Button mucks face down. Dealer scoops button's cards into muck and then yells "floor high hand table 5". after floor leaves BB gives button his $22 back from out of the pot pushed to him.

Quad sixes with 8 kicker holds, dealer gets tipped generously and button gets a green chip for good measure.

What do y'all think about this?

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What I think is this is why most competently run rooms require that a player hold a pocket pair in order for said player to qualify for HH quads

I don't like it.

But...Is it OK for him to fold if he's drawing dead?

Doesn't matter if button mucks. BB's bet was called and dealer needs to put out the turn and river. Someone was robbed of $1000 and since you didn't call for a floor you are complicit in it.

Doesn't sound like that's the procedure here.

That's what makes this murky. He could easily have behaved the same way without the HH. Can't really say without a previous incident to reference.

I like running out the board to see if the hand holds given that there was an all in and call. Anything else doesn't feel right to me based on the current responses.

This scenario was brought up in the other recent HH thread. Seems to be room dependent - some dealers would run it out, some would drop the stub right then and there.

Uh there are plenty of competently run rooms that only require that both of your hole cards play.

I think Mat is pointing out how their procedure can make customers feel like they were cheated. I expected the board to be run out too. (It's better if they consistently do not run out the board in this situation, but with a likely sample of one, I don't trust them to be consistent unless it's written somewhere beforehand.)

This, (unlike the 5 minute tanking to hit the next high hand) has got to be such a rare occurence its not worthy of "solving". Ive played in high hand rooms for 2k hours now and never seen this. Im mostly typing this out bc I dont get the hate high hands seem to get in this forum. They are not complicated and 98% of the time run smoothly. They are also much better for player volume and retention then any other promotions Ive seen...including $500k bad beat jackpots.

For this unique outlier, let a floor rule it...and personally I agree with Rapini that a board should be run out.

No floor ruling was made. Nothing was being contested by anyone here. Floor was only called to confirm high hand and call it in to the brush to put it up on the board.





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What if he shoves and exposes his hand?

As one FIRMLY camped in the HATE HH corner, I would state the opposite
in the last 8 months I have seen and heard collusion/cheating for these HH promos over 100 times AT my table.
HH promo's are here to stay as they fill rooms and improve the bottom line ; I get that.
maybe a better thread would be optimal play to exploit the HH short stack rocks that flock to these.
A great game with lots of action completely changes its dynamic once the HH times kick in ; players are now focused on hitting these and not playing poker.
I'm trying to sort my stats to track this but believe my win rate drops by 60% during the HH promo time periods.
Reminds me of being dragged to the bingo hall as a kid with my grandmother.
I can smell the mothballs and talc powder as I type this.

What I call collusion/cheating in HH promo's

1) you sit down at a table and players on either side whisper to you, if I need a call I'll nudge you, you do the same! (didn't even count this in the 100 times stated above as this is standard daily)

2) I need a call and will agree to check it down
or if you call I'll check it down

3) I need a call will toss it back to you after hand plays out

4) I got a HH draw , check it down with me

5) reg against reg , long glance at HH board, then comes the comment: you might have me I got kicker troubles followed by a bet fold

6) or the famous checked to river followed by a long stare at the HH board; a $2 bet and the long stare at the HH board thereby telling the other reg he needs a call to make the $10 min pot

7) dealers a little stickler ; so a board of 7767 turn bet and comment of did you see Jack lost out on the HH because his kicker got beat on the river last night, that was a shame. bet fold talker turns up 78

and the list goes on and on
Kudo's to the dealers/ rooms who enforce the rules but they are few and far.

I don't see how you have stated the opposite. Avaritia allowed for 2% of HH promos to not run smoothly, and you definitely play in one of the freakier rooms if all of the above happens to you on the regular. Consider that your room might be in the 2%?

Interesting spot ... Is there a reason to run the board out if a player sees he's drawing dead and mucks? Probably wasted time in a cash game ... Would you expect the Dealer to run out the board if there wasn't a HH promo going on? Probably not.

Certainly in rooms where they use 'all-in' and 'call' buttons it's going to look a little fishy to the cameras when the board isn't run out and a promo is paid out.

I don't think it's so much the running of the board (or not) it's the returning of chips after the fact. What if it had been $100 to call the all-in? We've seen plenty of threads where the $$ involved can change how the spot is handled in each player's mind.

I think collusion/cheating is going to happen no matter what promo is being run. The HH promos offer a greater opportunity simply because they are paid out more often. Rooms that offer HH 'all the time' are opening themselves up to players who are going to look to stretch the system.

I prefer the 'daily' HH boards where you get paid based on your 'best' hand regardless of hole cards. If the Dealer puts a Royal on the board .. chop it up!! GL

You almost had me...but you went a little too hard with bolded. Nice try tho

I would agree if I were talking about 1 room.
I travel and play in 50-60 rooms over a 12 month span
not all these rooms run the HH promo, some have BB jackpot , some have both, some have neither.
some rooms are great at managing this; others figure its not their money , its just a way to fill the seats and increase the bottom line.
LETS look at the bottom line.
players cheating see it as cheating the poker room not what it truly is.
THEY are cheating you and I , the other players in the room!!! Its our money funding these pools not the Casinos.

99.9% of players don't change their play to chase/hit a bad beat.
80% of players purely play to chase/hit a High hand

Avaritia might only play nights and weekends I don't know?
everyone would agree 1pm on a Tuesday has a very different crowd then 1pm on a Saturday.

If this is true - which I doubt - you should fix that. People not playing well is never a bad thing.

We're all friends on here, come on you can confess
you're one of the I'll buy in for $50 and nurse it for a shot at the HH rocks

This isn't murky at all ... I get that sometimes players fold in this spot because they are drawing dead (or think they are) but the passing of the money back to the player who folded (and his acceptance of it) indicates to me the players were colluding for the jackpot.

In pretty much every room, isn't passing money on the table against the rules? Why isn't that being enforced?

Because then players would start to question why others are allowed to play red/black from their stack and why one dude paid his massage with chips from his stack.

If you start to disallow those things, somebody will complain that one guy tipped the waitress a red chip even though that was 10% of his stack.

Now you have to implement a written rule that tells players how much they are exactly allowed to tip from their stacks. But that's going to make dealers/waitresses very unhappy if the number comes down to $1 or $2.

Besides that, we are not solving a single problem by making the guy go to his wallet to refund the other player and later pay him his share of the jackpot. Especially not in uncapped games or situations where the guy has less than the table maximum buy-in.

People shouldn't be allowed to do those other things either, IMO, except tipping a small amount to a service worker, which is the same as tipping a dealer. Paying for meals or massages from the stacks is terrible and should never be allowed. Playing red / black for one chip doesn't really bother me, but I don't think it would bother anyone else to have it disallowed either.

I don't think paying another player out of pocket should be allowed either. I know it couldn't be enforced after the game, but I think forcing it away from the table would make these kinds of shenanigans happen less often.

This dealer took a risk in crossing a line by not saying anything to the floor. Unless this room has a procedure in place that says they don't run out the board in this instance I would expect my dealer to explain exactly what just happened and ask the floor to decide if the board should be run out or not.

I think this one is ok to let slide the way it went down UNTIL the guy gives the bet back and flips him $25. That is collusion that is hard to look past, but then again no one let management know about it so that's the end of it. Your choice to remain silent was yours to make, same as everyone else at the table. Could be costing yourself $1k if a couple hands later you get quads just shy of what he ended with.