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Old 11-20-2017, 08:07 PM   #51
TheBoom
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
OP, it may be instructive for you to do a search on you tube for 'angle shooting' or 'poker angles' etc. there are some good ones. From hiding big chips (this happened recently) to the old 'Raise, no I mean call' angle. These are the types of things that sometimes a third player can say something about (though it is walking a thin line). For example, if a player goes all in, and is clearly hiding big chips behind his stack of smaller chips, a player with a cleaner angle might be able to say something without getting penalized.
Thanks I didn't even think to do this. Gonna take a look.
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:12 PM   #52
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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I would think someone new to live poker would be frustrated with the pace of the game or mistakes by a dealer. You could probably play him off as a cocky ******* who isn't used to the social aspects of the live game. He could be turned into a villain really quick and have to take lessons from a seasoned live pro in how to handle himself amongst people in the real world.
This could be good for a later on character. The current character I'm working with isn't as arrogant, he wants to try and fit in.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:55 PM   #53
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

What was online poker lingo like back in 2003? It feels like before people were talking about ranges, but what about VPIP and such? Seeing as he was an online player I could see him sitting down and throwing out technical terms that nobody at the table would understand or care about.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:09 AM   #54
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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What was online poker lingo like back in 2003? It feels like before people were talking about ranges, but what about VPIP and such? Seeing as he was an online player I could see him sitting down and throwing out technical terms that nobody at the table would understand or care about.
OP, might be worth it to go back in the archives here and read some of the posts from 2003 to get a feel for what online players were talking about back then
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:28 PM   #55
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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No way an online player would do something like that. Please don't include this.

And go log 50-100 hours of live play. It will help a lot.
Reread my post. It was in the green to poker section, not the green to live poker section. I gave two lists, for comparative purposes.

Oh, and I watched a guy try to do that one night... and he couldn't understand why the dealer wouldn't let him buy chips after the action was on him preflop. He went all in with his short stack, had no callers, then mucked his pocket aces face up.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:52 PM   #56
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
OP, might be worth it to go back in the archives here and read some of the posts from 2003 to get a feel for what online players were talking about back then
Definitely will. Though technically the events of the pilot will be in 2004, I'm fast forwarding a year ahead when the STTF HUC took place (talked about in Ship it Holla Ballas, a live tournament in Vegas that Roble, Durrr, Raptor and many others attended). And I think around that time is when many of the tools were first being released, but in my pilot they will have already existed.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:31 PM   #57
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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Originally Posted by TheBoom View Post
Definitely will. Though technically the events of the pilot will be in 2004, I'm fast forwarding a year ahead when the STTF HUC took place (talked about in Ship it Holla Ballas, a live tournament in Vegas that Roble, Durrr, Raptor and many others attended). And I think around that time is when many of the tools were first being released, but in my pilot they will have already existed.
That book is actually where I first heard of 2p2. You can still find a lot of the posts referenced in it in the 2p2 archives.
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Old 11-28-2017, 02:56 PM   #58
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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My #1 has to be quick and obvious and just as he sits at the table
May have already been said, but...

The perfect simple scenario is something I see a lot. New player walks into the room and looks around for a bit. He sees an empty seat and decides to sit down and set a couple hundos on the table and the dealer has to tell him that he needs to check in at the desk to get a seat. A lot of noobs think it's like blackjack where you just pick a table. The other players at the table get a good laugh and are hoping he gets sent back to their table.
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Old 11-28-2017, 03:38 PM   #59
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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New player walks into the room and looks around for a bit. He sees an empty seat and decides to sit down and set a couple hundos on the table and the dealer has to tell him that he needs to check in at the desk to get a seat.
I only wish more dealers would do this rather than letting regs they know jump the line.

Then he gets a warning for jumping the list as he stares at the supervisor with a puzzled look of confusion in his eyes. Then, he bashfully admits "I'm sorry, I have to tell you, this is my first time in a live poker room. But I'm really good at poker... I play online!" as his face now glitters with happiness.

Then the supervisor says

"That's OK, I understand. BTW, May I please see your ID"?

"But I already showed it at the door", he cried out.

"We're allowed and encouraged to ask anyone at any time" explains the supervisor.

Then the scene ends in a cliff hanger
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:44 PM   #60
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

The scenario of him walking over to the table without checking in would be good if they just let him stay at the table and gave him a warning. Is that realistic? Because the machinations of the scene would become too convoluted if I had to have him sit down, then he has to get up again to check in, then he checks in and gets sent back to sit down, even if it's at the same table and there is some humor there.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:29 AM   #61
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The scene

In case you didn't see, I had been asking people for their input on a scene in my poker pilot where a player goes to play live poker for the first time: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...pilot-1695982/.

First, I want to thank everyone for giving me ideas for this scene. It was very helpful and I appreciate it.

I've now written the scene and was wondering if you guys would mind taking a look? It's only 2 pages. Here it is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Gk...k_KYV1rIp3Y9vl

Note: I had my character walk into the poker room and sit at the table without signing up. The brush cuts him a break and allows him to stay at the table after showing ID. This is a lot more convenient for the scene than having my character sign up at the brush table (kind of a waste of time). Is there any scenario where the floor might allow the player to slide on this mistake and just let them stay at the table?

Thanks!

Last edited by TheBoom; 11-30-2017 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:23 AM   #62
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Re: The scene

Yeah. If there are no player names on the board sign-up list for that game, and no other possible short tables of the same limit that need to be filled first, he could be allowed to remain there.

Last edited by JoseJohnnyJimJack; 11-30-2017 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:36 AM   #63
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Re: The scene

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Yeah. If there are no player names on the board sign-up list for that game, and no other possible short tables of the same limit that need to be filled first, he could be allowed to remain there.
Nice. That makes things a bit more convenient. Thanks for the info.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:28 AM   #64
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Re: The scene

Not sure what you are looking for on feedback, but had these thoughts:

Why would the floor say they need to check him in? If the seat is open then they just let him sit in it. The dealer would ask for a player's card, but it is optional. So I'm not sure what break the brush is cutting. Maybe the floor would ask him what game he is looking for and he stumbles on response.

Next the dealer handing the player a rack? Does the dealer just have a pile of racked chips under the table? (Dealer has a tray of chips. No rack would be slid). If a rack is needed for you scene you could work in a chip runner.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:25 PM   #65
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

One reason for checking in at the desk is because there may be multiple tables with open seats and the floor might want to send him to a table that might have more openings.

It could go something like:
Player sits
Dealer tells him he has to go check in at the desk
Floor walks by while doing other stuff in the room and says there is no list and that is the table he would have been sent to anyways, but next time check in first

One reason that the floor might be walking by is because he is doing a fill on that particular table because the brush is unavailable. Maybe the brush stand was vacant for this reason. If you are married to the idea of the kid fumbling with a rack of chips, the floor can trade a rack for cash and do another fill. This would create a reason for the floor to come back to the table if you need him to do something else in the scene.

One way to establish a player is new is to have the dealer ask for a players club card and for the newbie to not have one. Maybe an established player can make a joke about an obvious rookie being at the table.

At some point, you need to figure out what stakes they are playing and how much Peter is buying in for.

It's probably meaningless, but I would consider making the board so that it is possible that Peter could be bluffing with a missed flush draw. If you wanted to add dialogue to the river, you could have his opponent openly wondering if Peter missed his draw before exposing his hand, but it is not something that has to be remarked on.
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:33 PM   #66
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Re: The scene

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Originally Posted by 12bigworm81 View Post
Next the dealer handing the player a rack? Does the dealer just have a pile of racked chips under the table? (Dealer has a tray of chips. No rack would be slid). If a rack is needed for you scene you could work in a chip runner.
Yeah, that line's gotta go. Either he can buy chips directly from the dealer just like a blackjack table (no rack involved, money is counted and chips are cut out in front of the dealer, then slid to the player), or have him come to the table with a rack already purchased from the cashier.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:19 PM   #67
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Re: The scene

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Originally Posted by 12bigworm81 View Post
Not sure what you are looking for on feedback, but had these thoughts:

Why would the floor say they need to check him in? If the seat is open then they just let him sit in it. The dealer would ask for a player's card, but it is optional. So I'm not sure what break the brush is cutting. Maybe the floor would ask him what game he is looking for and he stumbles on response.

Next the dealer handing the player a rack? Does the dealer just have a pile of racked chips under the table? (Dealer has a tray of chips. No rack would be slid). If a rack is needed for you scene you could work in a chip runner.
That's the exact type of feedback I'm looking for, thanks.

If he just went and sat at a table without checking in, wouldn't he be scolded for that? That was my line of thinking, that the brush caught him after he barged in, but let him just stay at the table. But I guess as per your and others post, the dealer would know this somehow? And the dealer would ask for the player's card, and if they didn't have one, then they would ask for ID? (Like at a BJ table?).

The dealer handing the rack was just a misstep and one I'll have to remedy.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:31 PM   #68
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
One reason for checking in at the desk is because there may be multiple tables with open seats and the floor might want to send him to a table that might have more openings.

It could go something like:
Player sits
Dealer tells him he has to go check in at the desk
Floor walks by while doing other stuff in the room and says there is no list and that is the table he would have been sent to anyways, but next time check in first

One reason that the floor might be walking by is because he is doing a fill on that particular table because the brush is unavailable. Maybe the brush stand was vacant for this reason. If you are married to the idea of the kid fumbling with a rack of chips, the floor can trade a rack for cash and do another fill. This would create a reason for the floor to come back to the table if you need him to do something else in the scene.

One way to establish a player is new is to have the dealer ask for a players club card and for the newbie to not have one. Maybe an established player can make a joke about an obvious rookie being at the table.

At some point, you need to figure out what stakes they are playing and how much Peter is buying in for.

It's probably meaningless, but I would consider making the board so that it is possible that Peter could be bluffing with a missed flush draw. If you wanted to add dialogue to the river, you could have his opponent openly wondering if Peter missed his draw before exposing his hand, but it is not something that has to be remarked on.
Thanks, so I can do this:

-Peter walks straight to table without signing in
-As soon as he sits, dealer tells him he needs to go sign in
-He starts to get up, but the floor is nearby and tells him it's alright.
-Optional: I don't understand how he'd go about getting the rack from the floor at this point, would he have to take Peter's cash and bring it back to him?
-Dealer asks for player's card, Peter has no idea what that is, so he just asks for ID.

The stakes and buy-in I'm not going to include. If people are interested, they'll be able to see it from looking at the table.

Not understanding your reasoning for changing it to a bluff? The opponent nearly gets Peter to show his winning hand so that he can know to fold. I want to try and keep the hand simple also.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:34 PM   #69
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Re: The scene

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Yeah, that line's gotta go. Either he can buy chips directly from the dealer just like a blackjack table (no rack involved, money is counted and chips are cut out in front of the dealer, then slid to the player), or have him come to the table with a rack already purchased from the cashier.
Yup gonna have to change that looks like. Any thoughts on the hand?
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:19 PM   #70
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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Thanks, so I can do this:

-Peter walks straight to table without signing in
-As soon as he sits, dealer tells him he needs to go sign in
-He starts to get up, but the floor is nearby and tells him it's alright.
-Optional: I don't understand how he'd go about getting the rack from the floor at this point, would he have to take Peter's cash and bring it back to him?
-Dealer asks for player's card, Peter has no idea what that is, so he just asks for ID.

The stakes and buy-in I'm not going to include. If people are interested, they'll be able to see it from looking at the table.

Not understanding your reasoning for changing it to a bluff? The opponent nearly gets Peter to show his winning hand so that he can know to fold. I want to try and keep the hand simple also.
The floor could be doing a fill. Not necessarily his job, but he might be stepping in if the brush is busy. Players have bought chips at the table and the dealer is out of chips in his tray. The floor has taken the cash and is bringing chips to replace them. He comes to the table as the player is being told to check in at the desk and okays the player sitting down. Instead of making Peter go to the cage for a buy-in, he just slides the rack to Peter and takes his cash, with the intention of getting chips that will go in the dealer's well. He could just hand that off to the brush or chip runner so that person comes back with chips or he could do it himself, which you might want if you need him somewhere else.

I'm not sure about the ID stuff. It sounds like you want to a scene where his fake ID is shown to pass a cursory inspection. If our hero is young looking, the floor might ask to see his ID to verify his age. The dealer won't ask for it instead of a player card. The player card is just to get swiped into the system to track comps. Some poker rooms will ask for a driver's license so they can print out a duplicate card for a player who lost his. I don't think they are usually able to enter a new player into the system. When I played a tournament at the Wynn, they had a station for their player's club to issue cards, since you need one to play a tournament there and it is plausible that the floor might volunteer to run the ID to the desk.

Stakes/buy-in matter in that you need plausible numbers that he would be buying in with a full rack. $500 in $5 chips would be an entire rack and a reasonable buy-in for a 2/5NL game. Even if you are not going to account for it with dialogue, at some point you have to decide what you want to be able to be determined from looking at the table.

I'm not suggesting changing it to a bluff. I am suggesting that the guy with queens trying to get a read on his opponent by exposing his hand makes more sense if he is trying to figure out if his opponent has a flush draw and missed.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:33 PM   #71
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

Have your character buy into a tournament and play a few hands, and then get aces and go all in.

Only to be told it's a limit tournament.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:25 PM   #72
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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The floor could be doing a fill. Not necessarily his job, but he might be stepping in if the brush is busy. Players have bought chips at the table and the dealer is out of chips in his tray. The floor has taken the cash and is bringing chips to replace them. He comes to the table as the player is being told to check in at the desk and okays the player sitting down. Instead of making Peter go to the cage for a buy-in, he just slides the rack to Peter and takes his cash, with the intention of getting chips that will go in the dealer's well. He could just hand that off to the brush or chip runner so that person comes back with chips or he could do it himself, which you might want if you need him somewhere else.

I'm not sure about the ID stuff. It sounds like you want to a scene where his fake ID is shown to pass a cursory inspection. If our hero is young looking, the floor might ask to see his ID to verify his age. The dealer won't ask for it instead of a player card. The player card is just to get swiped into the system to track comps. Some poker rooms will ask for a driver's license so they can print out a duplicate card for a player who lost his. I don't think they are usually able to enter a new player into the system. When I played a tournament at the Wynn, they had a station for their player's club to issue cards, since you need one to play a tournament there and it is plausible that the floor might volunteer to run the ID to the desk.

Stakes/buy-in matter in that you need plausible numbers that he would be buying in with a full rack. $500 in $5 chips would be an entire rack and a reasonable buy-in for a 2/5NL game. Even if you are not going to account for it with dialogue, at some point you have to decide what you want to be able to be determined from looking at the table.

I'm not suggesting changing it to a bluff. I am suggesting that the guy with queens trying to get a read on his opponent by exposing his hand makes more sense if he is trying to figure out if his opponent has a flush draw and missed.
Appreciate the info on the chip rack, in the end, I decided it was too convoluted to go through all that so I eliminated it and just had him buy the chips at the table.

Also, regarding the hand, now I totally see what you're saying, it gives him another reason to be suspicious. So I put two of the same suits on the flop. I also had the villain lead out after Peter checks on the flop, then Peter reraises him and they both check the turn. I think it makes a little more sense.

Update is here if you wouldn't mind taking a look: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gkz...1rIp3Y9vl/view .
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:27 PM   #73
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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Have your character buy into a tournament and play a few hands, and then get aces and go all in.

Only to be told it's a limit tournament.
lol
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:37 PM   #74
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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Originally Posted by TheBoom View Post
Thanks, so I can do this:

-Peter walks straight to table without signing in
-As soon as he sits, dealer tells him he needs to go sign in
-He starts to get up, but the floor is nearby and tells him it's alright.
-Optional: I don't understand how he'd go about getting the rack from the floor at this point, would he have to take Peter's cash and bring it back to him?
-Dealer asks for player's card, Peter has no idea what that is, so he just asks for ID.

The stakes and buy-in I'm not going to include. If people are interested, they'll be able to see it from looking at the table.

Not understanding your reasoning for changing it to a bluff? The opponent nearly gets Peter to show his winning hand so that he can know to fold. I want to try and keep the hand simple also.
I think you are missing a chance for some funny banter at the table here. You could change it to:
-Peter walks straight to table without checking in with the brush
-As soon as he sits, dealer tells him he needs to go to the desk
-He heads to the desk and the players at the table are making jokes talking about how they hope the brush sends the obvious noob back to their table
Quote:
-Optional: I don't understand how he'd go about getting the rack from the floor at this point, would he have to take Peter's cash and bring it back to him?
-Now Peter comes back to the table with a rack of chips saying they told me to play here anyways and can fumble with it or whatever.
-Dealer asks for player's card, Peter has no idea what that is, so he just says no thanks or whatever.
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:48 PM   #75
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Re: Help on scene in poker pilot?

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I think you are missing a chance for some funny banter at the table here. You could change it to:
-Peter walks straight to table without checking in with the brush
-As soon as he sits, dealer tells him he needs to go to the desk
-He heads to the desk and the players at the table are making jokes talking about how they hope the brush sends the obvious noob back to their table

-Now Peter comes back to the table with a rack of chips saying they told me to play here anyways and can fumble with it or whatever.
-Dealer asks for player's card, Peter has no idea what that is, so he just says no thanks or whatever.
I'm trying to keep the scene short as the pilot is already bursting at the seams. Sending him back to the brush stand while they chatter lengthens it quite a bit more.

I'm Going to look for more opportunities for humor when I re-write things later on. As of now, just trying to get the machinations of the scene down and try to make it as plausible as possible.
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