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Old 01-06-2018, 01:09 PM   #26
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

So you are not really talking about serious confrontation to deal with "that guy"? I call that very wise. Because most floors would treat you both as disrupters , tell you to chill, STFU and play on, and even give you both a rack. The approach you described seems reasonable enough since you feel you must defend your self actively against the verbal abuse of "that guy"! However, I also know that you still run the risk of being lumped together as BOTH disruptors by some floors at some times. If you can accept that reality it seems it is an OK way to deal with "that guy"!
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:17 PM   #27
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

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Originally Posted by Olaff View Post
Actually, you can if you do it right. Refer to my post above on how I do it.

That said, I am interested in learning about deflecting. Could you tell me how to do it?
Not tell you, I am not a teacher or policeman LOL , but give you some examples that often works. Self depreaciating humor can often defuse or even end a verbal attack. Maybe a simple smile, wink and a nod. Or maybe ignoring "that guy" and striking up a conversation with another player. Or get up and go to the rest room. What ever. Just some ideas. If the intensity of the attack by "that guy" goes up you have more ammo for the floor than if you immediately fired back on his level. Nothing works all the time BTW
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:18 PM   #28
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit View Post
However, I also know that you still run the risk of being lumped together as BOTH disruptors by some floors at some times.
Every time the floor is called, the game stops for at least a minute, usually longer than that. So the guy calling the floor is responsible for disrupting the game and therefore it's fair to label him disruptor.
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:29 PM   #29
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

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Originally Posted by madlex View Post
Every time the floor is called, the game stops for at least a minute, usually longer than that. So the guy calling the floor is responsible for disrupting the game and therefore it's fair to label him disruptor.
Kinda my point too as seen from the floors perspective, not to mention other players having to sit through it, But some situations would be different as to what level of disruptor different folks were. I assume most floors would prefer both just chill, STFU and play on..
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:00 PM   #30
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

So, a guy is saying confrontational stuff to you to get a rise. Even trying to talk him down (and I doubt seriously that you can talk to anyone who is getting under your skin that calmly) gives him exactly what he wants.

Better approaches
1. Ignore. Pop in head phones (I don't even turn them on, I just put them in as a symbolic gesture), or join in a converdation already going on around the table
2. Self deprecate-if the guy is insulting your play, just say something self deprecating like 'Yeah, I haven't gotten to that chapter in super system yet' or 'Yep, and that won't be the last mistake I make tonight, either'. If you are playing solid, and have a good stack, no one will think you are being serious, but it will placate That Guy
3. A short, non-escalating statement, like 'OK, that's enough'. That guy will likely respond to get the last word, and you can't reply, but it will usually result in an end to the chatter

Another strategy would be to go to the bathroom, and then stop by the floor on the way back and just tell them what is going on.

There is no need to get in a pissing match with That Guy. There is no need to let him get under your skin. 90% of the time, you can just ignore the guy and he will eventually get bored when no one is watching his show.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:06 PM   #31
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit View Post
So you are not really talking about serious confrontation to deal with "that guy"?
It is a serious confrontation. Just not an overly aggressive one. It's assertive, it paints him as breaking social norms, rude, etc and me as the nice guy just trying to keep things cool and play the game.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:12 PM   #32
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

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Originally Posted by Olaff View Post
It's not going head to toe. It's not like this:

D: "Haha, nice call, dumb ass!"
M: "**** you, mother****er!" or "At least it was better than your raise, idiot!"

It's more like this.

D: "Haha, nice call, dumb ass!"
M: "Excuse me? Listen, you're being rude and I really don't appreciate it. There's no need to be rude. Let's just play the game and have fun."
D: "I'm not being rude. I just think you're a dumb ass".
M: "Floor." the dealer backs me up when the floor comes over because I've engineered the encounter to be as black-and-white as possible.
Outstanding! For me it's usually like this -

Nice call, dumb ass!
Thank you.

Then there is no escalation and someone thinks I'm a dumb ass. I do it this way because I'm not there to get into a verbal battle of wits, I'm there to play poker. It's win-win!
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:25 PM   #33
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex View Post
Every time the floor is called, the game stops for at least a minute, usually longer than that. So the guy calling the floor is responsible for disrupting the game and therefore it's fair to label him disruptor.
Ridiculous nonsense. Merely calling the floor does not make someone a "disruptor".
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:33 PM   #34
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

I appreciate the ideas, guys. Maybe there is a better way to do it than what I'm doing.
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:00 PM   #35
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

I've play poker with A LOT of people for 10+ years .. You know I bet I've seen maybe less than 20 'in public'. In life you really do want to be true to yourself, but does it really matter if 'that guy' spouts off a bit of emotion at you? Do you really need to 'defend' yourself in these spots? For some yes ... GL
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Old 01-06-2018, 06:25 PM   #36
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff View Post

D: "Haha, nice call, dumb ass!"
M: "Excuse me? Listen, you're being rude and I really don't appreciate it. There's no need to be rude. Let's just play the game and have fun."
D: "I'm not being rude. I just think you're a dumb ass".
M: "Floor." the dealer backs me up when the floor comes over because I've engineered the encounter to be as black-and-white as possible.

This is a level-headed and not unreasonable reponse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
Outstanding! For me it's usually like this -

Nice call, dumb ass!
Thank you.

This is a level-headed and not unreasonable response.


In the former, he has gotten under your skin, and has shown everyone else how easy it is. And there is a chance you will be seen as a disruptor by others, including the floor.

In the latter, you are getting under his skin, and when he continues he demonstrates to everyone else how easy it is. And there is no chance for you to be seen as a disruptor by others, including the floor.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:35 PM   #37
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaff View Post
It is a serious confrontation. Just not an overly aggressive one. It's assertive, it paints him as breaking social norms, rude, etc and me as the nice guy just trying to keep things cool and play the game.
It does call out his bad behaviour but it certainly doesn't paint you out to be a nice guy just trying to keep things cool. If this has been working for you have at it.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:49 AM   #38
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

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Originally Posted by Guito View Post
It does call out his bad behaviour but it certainly doesn't paint you out to be a nice guy just trying to keep things cool. If this has been working for you have at it.
i've had feedback to the contrary but of course it's subjective. what does it paint me in your view?
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:51 AM   #39
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
If he's ranting about you missing value bets, it means his strategy is centered on value betting. If he's ranting about you calling his bluff, it means his strategy is centered on bluffing.
Funny you said that, it was one episode in a casino that really pissed me off and led me to start this thread:

DH (you can guess what that stands for) started off okay not being an a-hole, both me and DH had quite big stacks. Then one time we were on the river, it was only me and him in hand, and there were two pairs on the board AA and QQ and some kicker. I had King high, I checked, he raised 2500, which was a small amount compared to his stack. I thought his bet didn't really make sense, if he had a house or quads he would have raised a large amount or gone all in, unless he was going for a re-raise which was unlikely since his opponent, me, had checked in the same round.

Me: "I don't think you've got anything, I'm going to call."
(I called)
DH: "You didn't think that"
Me: "I got King high"
DH: "King high beats me!"
(he mucks his cards)
Me: "Knew it!"
DH: "No you didn't"
Me:
DH's friend talking about me: "He's pretty good"
DH: "No, he's the worst player I've ever seen in my life! And I don't know what this guy (points to someone else) is doing! And these two here! Why do you people raise the river when you got nothing? You might as well play roulette! This is what you get when you come here on a Sunday afternoon!"

Now although I didn't appreciate this I ignored it, hoping he would get knocked out soon. But it's what happened a few hands later that really wound me up. He was in play with another guy and went all in on the flop, he had three of a kind and his opponent had two pairs, Kings and tens, I was begging for a King or 10 to come up on the turn or river. A king came up and I let out an audible "YES!"

DH: "That is really bad! That is really bad!"
Me: "Well I don't like those comments you were making about me"
DH: "Well take that up with me, don't start celebrating"
DH's friend: "People in casino's don't do this"
DH: "That is really bad!"

I was literally speechless! This guy who acted like a complete prick was now lecturing me on etiquette! What was worse was that the cuck who knocked him out the tournament started apologizing to him, making me look like the bad guy. And after he left, him and DH's friend started shaking their heads. I couldn't believe it, it was OK for this guy to insult people on the table but someone says something back (nay not even says something back, is glad he's off the table because he's being a prick) and he plays the victim and talks about etiquette!

This wasn't the only encounter I had with an a-hole but it was the hypocrisy which pissed me off the most. Reason my post was so angry because I was thinking of this.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:27 AM   #40
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Those conversations wouldn't happen if I was playing your cards.

Hand one, I probably fold but w/e, if I call I don't do the speech and I certainly don't say "Knew it!" - it's pretty provocative to jam your hero call down his throat, make him look like a bluffing moron. Especially if he's being a bluffing moron. Not surprised that set him off.

Hand two, he's probably not already furious at me (see hand one). Then I'm not saying 'YES!' when his opponent's hand comes in, that's also provocative.

People are already annoyed when they lose a hand. They are looking for an excuse to be angry. You gave him excuses both times, for no good reason at all. I mean, you're telling this story and it sounds to me like you caused the problem.

Last edited by WereBeer; 01-09-2018 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:57 AM   #41
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer View Post
People are already annoyed when they lose a hand. They are looking for an excuse to be angry.
I don't like losing either but when someone outplays me I just say "well done", I don't start insulting the whole table! You know why, because I'm not 5 years old!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer View Post
Hand two, he's probably not already furious at me (see hand one). Then I'm not saying 'YES!' when his opponent's hand comes in, that's also provocative.
I wouldn't have done it to anyone else. I just don't understand how you can be surprised if the guy you were insulting is glad you're off the table. It's the hypocrisy that gets me, that he can so blatantly insult whoever he wants in a tournament they've paid for, but if someone says something back he plays the victim.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:59 AM   #42
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Maybe poker isn't for you.
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:21 AM   #43
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Grizzler you're a pretty big douchebag yourself in that story. Think about that.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:54 PM   #44
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzler View Post
Funny you said that, it was one episode in a casino that really pissed me off and led me to start this thread:

DH (you can guess what that stands for) started off okay not being an a-hole, both me and DH had quite big stacks. Then one time we were on the river, it was only me and him in hand, and there were two pairs on the board AA and QQ and some kicker. I had King high, I checked, he raised 2500, which was a small amount compared to his stack. I thought his bet didn't really make sense, if he had a house or quads he would have raised a large amount or gone all in, unless he was going for a re-raise which was unlikely since his opponent, me, had checked in the same round.

Me: "I don't think you've got anything, I'm going to call."
(I called)
DH: "You didn't think that"
Me: "I got King high"
DH: "King high beats me!"
(he mucks his cards)
Me: "Knew it!"
DH: "No you didn't"
Me:
DH's friend talking about me: "He's pretty good"
DH: "No, he's the worst player I've ever seen in my life! And I don't know what this guy (points to someone else) is doing! And these two here! Why do you people raise the river when you got nothing? You might as well play roulette! This is what you get when you come here on a Sunday afternoon!"

Now although I didn't appreciate this I ignored it, hoping he would get knocked out soon. But it's what happened a few hands later that really wound me up. He was in play with another guy and went all in on the flop, he had three of a kind and his opponent had two pairs, Kings and tens, I was begging for a King or 10 to come up on the turn or river. A king came up and I let out an audible "YES!"

DH: "That is really bad! That is really bad!"
Me: "Well I don't like those comments you were making about me"
DH: "Well take that up with me, don't start celebrating"
DH's friend: "People in casino's don't do this"
DH: "That is really bad!"

I was literally speechless! This guy who acted like a complete prick was now lecturing me on etiquette! What was worse was that the cuck who knocked him out the tournament started apologizing to him, making me look like the bad guy. And after he left, him and DH's friend started shaking their heads. I couldn't believe it, it was OK for this guy to insult people on the table but someone says something back (nay not even says something back, is glad he's off the table because he's being a prick) and he plays the victim and talks about etiquette!

This wasn't the only encounter I had with an a-hole but it was the hypocrisy which pissed me off the most. Reason my post was so angry because I was thinking of this.
Hand 1-Don't gloat to a player who just lost a hand. That's a jerk move
Hand 2-Did you really celebrate another player's misfortune in a hand you weren't in? That's an even bigger jerk move.

Yes, the other player reacted aggressively, but you provoked a steaming player with some stupid, poor etiquette comments.

I hate guys who celebrate when the suck out on me. It is classless, but somewhat understandable. I am not sure how I would react if a guy celebrated another player sucking out on me. You just don't do that in casinos.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:02 PM   #45
WereBeer
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

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Originally Posted by Grizzler View Post
I don't like losing either but when someone outplays me I just say "well done", I don't start insulting the whole table! You know why, because I'm not 5 years old!

I wouldn't have done it to anyone else. I just don't understand how you can be surprised if the guy you were insulting is glad you're off the table. It's the hypocrisy that gets me, that he can so blatantly insult whoever he wants in a tournament they've paid for, but if someone says something back he plays the victim.
But being blatantly provocative to whoever you want in a tournament that they've paid for and then playing the victim when you've successfully annoyed them is just fine, gotcha. I guess it's one rule about hypocrisy for you and a different one for everyone else.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:28 PM   #46
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzler View Post
I don't like losing either but when someone outplays me I just say "well done", I don't start insulting the whole table! You know why, because I'm not 5 years old!



I wouldn't have done it to anyone else. I just don't understand how you can be surprised if the guy you were insulting is glad you're off the table. It's the hypocrisy that gets me, that he can so blatantly insult whoever he wants in a tournament they've paid for, but if someone says something back he plays the victim.
Ummm, in both stories, you were the first one to say something.

Look, it is kind of obvious from the way that you described your hands that you are somewhat new to live poker (and possibly poker in general). Just a word of wisdom, when someone loses a hand, pretend like they do not even exist for a few minutes. Let them stew in peace. Don't gloat or celebrate, if you do, don't be surprised if they get mad. You cannot possibly say something like 'Knew it' when you make a call (Can't tell if it was a good call or not, you included some details, but left out all the details we would need to see to understand the hand), and then expect the bluffer to not get annoyed. When you win a hand, act gracious and humble. It is best to not talk about the hand at all.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:32 PM   #47
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Re: Help me understand the poker *******!

Someone who tosses around "cuck" as a pejorative is likely to be an unlikeable person who attracts negative behavior.
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