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Old 02-21-2019, 01:24 AM   #1
ONE HOLE IN ONE
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heads up showed hand

I feel I have to share this weird and truly uncomfortable situation with all that have played a lot of poker.

I'm at the MGM casino tonight in Washington DC area

Playing a 1/3 NL game

I'M in the C.O. with AA

I Raise to $18, get one caller (big blind, I have position, obviously duh)

Flop is: J,A,4 (rainbow)

Villain checks and I bet $40 and he calls

Turn: Q (cant remember suits,,,i'm not worried)

Villain checks and I bet $125.00 and he calls again

River: K (no flush is completed FYI) ----- I still feel I'm miles ahead with a set of Aces


Villain jams all in for $267.00 and I have him covered


I tank for a good 1-2 minutes (thinking...does he really have a "10" FML..)
I think more and it just doesn't add up, can't see folding top set.

So I decide to show my hand behind the "line" to see what kind of reaction he has. As I do this (visualize slow motion) the dealer says "YOU CAN'T DO THAT". In the dealers mid sentence the Villain shows A,J and says "Ha Ha I bluffed you"

I of course said: "I haven't folded, what are you thinking"

FYI, I was NOT angle shooting, I thought this was allowed when you are heads up. The rest of the table knowing me for many hours knows this

Long and short the floor came over and ruled in my favor, However, in the name of the game and being a gentleman (Karma BS) I decided to chop the pot with him.


Lessons learned though


I'm 58 years young and almost every casino I've played in gives you all the leeway you want when you are heads up.


Apparently not at MGM

*****Be safe folks and just in case you are wondering:

I'm a Doug Polk student (NEVER FOLD A SET),,, 7's or above

Last edited by ONE HOLE IN ONE; 02-21-2019 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:37 AM   #2
albedoa
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Re: heads up showed hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONE HOLE IN ONE View Post
So I decide to show my hand behind the "line" to see what kind of reaction he has. As I do this (visualize slow motion) the dealer says "YOU CAN'T DO THAT".
Damn, it would have made for some excellent television.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:43 AM   #3
branch0095
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Re: heads up showed hand

I'm not going to give you a hard time for showing your hands while tanking. It's not something I do, but to each their own. Id just say this is yet another instance where the confusion could have been avoided by knowing the house rules.

If you're playing in a room that you're not familiar with then it's in your best interest to verify house rules before doing anything that could be ruled differently from room to room. It's never the most fun thing to look like a rules nit and start asking about all the house rules when you first sit down, but at the very least you should be aware of the types of rules that can be enforced differently in each room and at least ask for clarification on a specific rule before you make any move that could put your action in jeopardy
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Old 02-21-2019, 03:44 AM   #4
BackDoorFlush
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Re: heads up showed hand

Stupid house rule; good floor ruling.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:04 AM   #5
WereBeer
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Re: heads up showed hand

Yeah they've decided showing your hand is a fold (probably) where I play too. Place is full of silly rules, the best bet is to make every action a bit robotic.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:06 AM   #6
JoseJohnnyJimJack
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Re: heads up showed hand

So casino rule says you can't show but the casino ruled in your favor? Doesn't make sense on the casino's part, even if you didn't know, because it caused an action by someone who reacted from knowing the rule.

Last edited by JoseJohnnyJimJack; 02-21-2019 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 11:42 AM   #7
madlex
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Re: heads up showed hand

Lesson learnt: never do stuff like that without first confirming with the dealer that you are allowed to.

FWIW, I think showing your hand should not be allowed even when facing an all-in heads-up. That’s just an absurd waste of time for 7 other players and the dealer. But the penalty for doing it should be a warning not to do it again, certainly not a dead hand.
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:52 PM   #8
Suit
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Re: heads up showed hand

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Originally Posted by ONE HOLE IN ONE View Post
However, in the name of the game and being a gentleman (Karma BS) I decided to chop the pot with him.
Overly nice gesture. I would've given him his last bet back at best and kept the rest since it is very unlikely you are betting that river if it is checked to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseJohnnyJimJack View Post
So casino rule says you can't show but the casino ruled in your favor? Doesn't make sense on the casino's part
I'm guessing most likely it is the dealer that doesn't understand his own house's rules.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:36 PM   #9
Bene Gesserit
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Re: heads up showed hand

Yet another example of the rules being whatever the dealer / floor says they are for that hand. For this situation you need to know what the room rules are before you do a heads up reveal. Of course that certainly is no guarantee that they will actually apply. It is kind of a home game move for sure , maybe out of place a tad at a casino table filled with strangers!
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:01 PM   #10
Mr Rick
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Re: heads up showed hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONE HOLE IN ONE View Post
...

So I decide to show my hand behind the "line" to see what kind of reaction he has. As I do this (visualize slow motion) the dealer says "YOU CAN'T DO THAT". In the dealers mid sentence the Villain shows A,J and says "Ha Ha I bluffed you"

I of course said: "I haven't folded, what are you thinking"

FYI, I was NOT angle shooting, I thought this was allowed when you are heads up. The rest of the table knowing me for many hours knows this

Long and short the floor came over and ruled in my favor, However, in the name of the game and being a gentleman (Karma BS) I decided to chop the pot with him.
...
What you did was an angleshot, whether or not it was intentional. And my understanding of angleshots is that they are always within the rules.

There are two parts to the angle. By showing your hand, you may get your opponent to fold without having to actually make the call yourself. Or, you may get your opponent to show his hand thinking they are the winner and that you had called or as in your case that you were intending to fold and that they had won the hand (though in this case it seems that your opponent may have thought your hand was dead because what you did was against the rules).

I did this exact thing one time and while my opponent didn't show me his cards he did think I was going to fold. When I called, which was not really based on his reaction but might have been subconsciously, he was enraged. And it got me to thinking about it.

The next and only other time I did this, I let my opponent know I wasn't calling or folding. Its true that giving my opponent a warning that I am going to show my hand, may affect his reaction to seeing my hand. But that is the price I now pay in order to make sure that my opponent's reaction isn't based on his thinking that I have called or folded.

Your response, giving up half the pot, was very generous. And of course shows that you were not intentionally angleshooting - which is a very important image to have IMO.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:58 AM   #11
answer20
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Re: heads up showed hand

ALWAYS ask the Dealer .. even if it's your regular room and you know the rule (the other Player may not) ... if you can talk or show your cards HU. Very simple habit to get into.

I'm not so sure we put this in the angle department ... if it's allowed. I think a lot of rooms are doing away with it since it generally will drag the hand out longer AND it gives 'Pros' an edge when they can get a less experienced Player to talk or react. As suggested, the issue from an angle standpoint is that if it is a Player unfamiliar with the house rules they could make an assumption and prematurely give off information.

Again, if allowed, I don't see this any different than cutting out a bet behind your cards to see if anyone gives off any body language. GL
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:51 PM   #12
ONE HOLE IN ONE
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Re: heads up showed hand

LOL!!! Couldn't agree more
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:59 PM   #13
ONE HOLE IN ONE
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Re: heads up showed hand

Thank you for your input, much appreciated
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:01 PM   #14
ONE HOLE IN ONE
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Re: heads up showed hand

The gentleman stated after the hand that he did.t know the rules either FYI
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:12 PM   #15
ninefingershuffle
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Re: heads up showed hand

Why did you tank for so long?
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Old 02-25-2019, 04:56 PM   #16
browni3141
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Re: heads up showed hand

IMO, villain was angle shooting YOU, not the other way around. He probably thinks it is more likely for the floor to rule in his favor if your exposure induced him to show his hand.

Villain's reaction is not a normal response here.
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Old 03-04-2019, 05:16 AM   #17
MMMed13
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Re: heads up showed hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoseJohnnyJimJack View Post
So casino rule says you can't show but the casino ruled in your favor? Doesn't make sense on the casino's part, even if you didn't know, because it caused an action by someone who reacted from knowing the rule.
I play in alot of rooms with this rule. They give you a warning the 1st time. I haven't seen someone do it a 2nd time after getting a warning. It's just a rule not to slow down the game.
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