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05-08-2016 , 10:48 PM

MikeStarr

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Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

I know the common assumption playing live is about 30 hands per hour. Ive personally always thought it was more like 35 / hr. Has anyone actually counted? My last 3 sessions covering 14 hours, I counted and got 42/hr playing $2/$5 NL.

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05-08-2016 , 10:53 PM

bobboufl11

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,329

In passive fit or fold games with auto shufflers and without serial tankers I think it can be higher than 35. It felt like I was getting more like 40 playing that type of game today based on number of times I hit the big blind in an hour. I didn't keep track how often we were 7 or 8 handed though.

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05-08-2016 , 10:55 PM

TR3V

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 366

Depends on the dealers - the ones who push more in get tipped better by this guy.

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05-08-2016 , 10:56 PM

MikeStarr

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Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

They do have auto shufflers where I play and most of the dealers are pretty good.

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05-08-2016 , 11:17 PM

steamraise

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,881

With the right players 40+ is easy.

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05-08-2016 , 11:28 PM

DrDanimal

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,502

The best games would never be that many hands per hour because the drunken tourists take a while to get situated and look at their cards and fumble with their chips. However it's nice when you have a dealer who balances keeping those players happy while keeping things moving and letting them know its on them to act.

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05-09-2016 , 12:40 AM

Guito

adept

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 785

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

On average: 30hph for a full game of HE. This is what we use to calculate how much should be in the rake box, and it is close enough to true that audit team is happy with it.

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05-09-2016 , 12:45 AM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

25 hands/hr for 1/2 NL
30 hands/hr for 4/8- LHE
40 hands/hr for 20/40+ LHE

Haven't played enough 2/5+ NL to know.

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05-09-2016 , 12:47 AM

psujohn

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,173

I've been at tables that did over 30 hands in 1 dealer down (30 minutes). I was at a table today that felt like we were getting maybe 20 hands in a hour between Mr tank 30s when facing a $10 bet and Mr watching a movie on his tablet.

30 an hour seems low to me for average though if there's at least one or two "big" hands that take a while to unfold and players rebuying and dealer's getting a fill and counting their rack it probably helps bring the average way down.

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05-09-2016 , 12:58 AM

#10

`Fearu

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 114

I think I live in the same area as you mike and at 2/5 i have made 3 side bets for how many hands do you think this dealer will get out I always take the over. Gives me a reason to count. The lowest I have seen is 14 and that was at a super slow table and highest was 22, we were 6 handed. I would say we average around 36 per hour assuming 8 handed and shuffling machine.

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05-09-2016 , 01:00 AM

#11

TS2

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,505

after not dealing for 4 years my 1st table back i got 19 hands out in 30 min on a 1/2. A lot depends on the players. Ive dealt a limit game where I had brand new players and had to explain their options each time it was their turn. Limit games are the fastest in general tho. I would say 30 an hour is a good average tho.

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05-09-2016 , 08:43 AM

#12

MikeStarr

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Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Im gonna count for a 100 hours or so. Im actually doing it so I can see what my VPIP/PFR % is, but hands per hr is also something Im interested in. Im confidant it will be 35+

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05-09-2016 , 11:37 AM

#13

12bigworm81

adept

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,040

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Im gonna count for a 100 hours or so. Im actually doing it so I can see what my VPIP/PFR % is, but hands per hr is also something Im interested in. Im confidant it will be 35+

Although I applaud your dedication to improving your craft, I cannot imagine sitting at a table full of people tracking this every hand. I doubt hands per hour would ever get above 35 with this happening.

Also agree with the posts that fewer hands per hour isn't necessarily a bad thing. Tons of action plays slower. 25 hands of high action is much better than 45 hands with the blinds chopping once an orbit.

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05-09-2016 , 11:41 AM

#14

Bene Gesserit

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Im gonna count for a 100 hours or so. Im actually doing it so I can see what my VPIP/PFR % is, but hands per hr is also something Im interested in. Im confidant it will be 35+

Will really depend on quality of the dealers and even more on the experience and skills of the players. One or two beginners or a drunk or two at a session can really slow things down. Feedback on your experiment on a later thread would be good.

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05-09-2016 , 12:16 PM

#15

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,434

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

25 hands/hr for 1/2 NL

Haven't played enough 2/5+ NL to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12bigworm81

Also agree with the posts that fewer hands per hour isn't necessarily a bad thing. Tons of action plays slower. 25 hands of high action is much better than 45 hands with the blinds chopping once an orbit.

The best 2/5 games are usually the ones that play like 1/2.

If somebody wants to write down all their hands in a session, they could also add the approximate pot size for every hand. That might show if there's a correlation between number of hands per hour and average pot size.

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05-09-2016 , 12:33 PM

#16

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Im gonna count for a 100 hours or so.

Don't waste your time. Just go with 35 as the average and you'll be spot on. For sure close enough for your purposes.

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05-09-2016 , 12:33 PM

#17

answer20

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Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,853

2/5 in my area is WAY slower than 1/2 so there would be a definite difference in hands per hour. The potential hourly rate is much better but for the player pool 2/5 is a significant jump in chip 'value' so the decisions aren't so easy ... and therefor take longer to make in a lot of cases.

In general the dealers around here want to have a minimum of 25 per hour up to 40.

'Good' rake is a min of $90 per hour and I've seen as much as $140 per hour at 1/2 tables that are very aggro with opening bets of $17 and 4 to Flop with a fold to the c-bet. These are awesome tables for both the dealers and the house. GL

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05-09-2016 , 03:25 PM

#18

ckpk

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

25 hands/hr for 1/2 NL
30 hands/hr for 4/8- LHE
40 hands/hr for 20/40+ LHE

Haven't played enough 2/5+ NL to know.

If I'm ever playing at a 1-2 table this slow then there are either terrible dealers or everyone is tanking and either way I would find somewhere else to play.

If I'm ever dealing 1-2 and the game is this slow I am extremely hungover or the bad beat has hit.

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05-09-2016 , 03:48 PM

#19

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,434

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckpk

If I'm ever playing at a 1-2 table this slow then there are either terrible dealers or everyone is tanking and either way I would find somewhere else to play.

Or there are 7 players to the flop each hand with 10+ hands/hour going to showdown..

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05-09-2016 , 04:01 PM

#20

ckpk

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

Or there are 7 players to the flop each hand with 10+ hands/hour going to showdown..

Competent dealer will still deal much faster than 12.5 hands per down.

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05-09-2016 , 04:16 PM

#21

MikeStarr

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Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12bigworm81

Its not very hard. I take notes on my phone. Every time the BB comes to me, I count the people at the table and add that number to the current number. If the table is full, I add 10 every time since we play 10 handed.

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05-09-2016 , 05:15 PM

#22

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckpk

If I'm ever playing at a 1-2 table this slow then ... everyone is tanking and either way I would find somewhere else to play.

One of the main reasons why LHE > NL.

My favorite are the guys with like $30 in play and coldcall a preflop raise for $10 and basically pot commit themselves, but still tank on the flop because it's an "all in" decision.

But yeah, NL (at least around here) is slow as ****.

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05-09-2016 , 07:15 PM

#23

psandman

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,829

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit

Will really depend on quality of the dealers and even more on the experience and skills of the players.

Even experienced or skilled players can be the sorts who bring a game to a crawl.

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05-09-2016 , 08:03 PM

#24

Bene Gesserit

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

Even experienced or skilled players can be the sorts who bring a game to a crawl.

I have seen that too LOL , but usually it is the beginners and such who slow things down the most. But they also leave a lot a money on the table most of the time, so we should not care too much.

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05-10-2016 , 06:34 AM

#25

answer20

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Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,853

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

Even experienced or skilled players can be the sorts who bring a game to a crawl.

The regs need to help out the newbies to a certain degree ... like not letting the RIT bug be exposed to pots of less than $100 unless the all-in shortie is on his 4th BI.

Lots of regs don't like it when I talk strat at the table, but if you don't at least start to let the newbies in on a little then they feel lost and don't come back. Sure it's a bit counterproductive since you make your 'enemy' better, but I want the challenge and I want to keep the player pool as large as possible to keep the games running longer. GL

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