I would try 1 and maybe 2 but be wary of burning bridges (I'm no help at either) . In the end I think it's highly unlikely you get money back.

It was never likely that Kings would reimburse you, even if you could prove they were (even more) in the wrong.

Even though you were playing at Kings, you were essentially playing a private game and failed to fully protect yourself - at minimum, for calling the floor during the hand.

You might be able to extract some food/comped rooms/other minor benefits.

The floor should immediately clean up its current shot clock system to avoid more contentious situations. It sounds like a complete trainwreck, tbh.

I mean it is what it is. Private game with politics of it at a shady casino that is not going to protect your interest. I would not take legal action as that’s a recipe for sinking more money in a bad situation and you can report it to regulators but in my experience in the us they are not interested in protecting players in specific instances like this more in general rules/guidelines and I doubt in a province literally created for this casino the regulators are really interested in protecting you to be honest. At best they fine the casino which is nice karma or shut down the game if you never want to play it again could be good revenge. Who runs the game??? Even if the opponent is a fish whoever is organizing the game is ultimately responsible for protecting the players and ensuring the integrity of the game and diplomatic in resolving disputes so players are enjoying the game in my experience.

This is from a while ago but all the plo players in the big games were actually owed lots of money from this casino from “failed wires” so if they had to settle for less/struggle to get paid from legitimate debts cashing out their winnings what recourse do you really think you have in a more gray area even though i definitely side with you.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...asino-1751884/

That thread doesn’t even do it justice tbh they people owed 100k+ don’t talk about it have to make deals if they ever want to see part/all their money even with delays. It’s been going on for a while because I remember a few years ago I was warned there was issues there so never went.

That thread seems insane the number of issues with payouts.

As for OP I think it would be worth bringing the case to the attention of the regulator bit wouldn't be hopefull about redress. As for getting lawyers involved seems like throwing good money after bad unfortunately. Whole situation stinks

I didn't go back through the math, but since you didn't have to call the River bet I don't think it's 30k you are owed right now .. maybe 23k?

Not knowing your resources or the ability to handle this from 'afar' (assuming you were just visiting) I think this will be a very tall task to navigate. While not impossible, even if you did somehow put all these ducks in a row there's still the 'Rule #1' when you walk into a casino .. The Floor's decision is final ..

Proving your point might be the easiest thing to do in the process as well. Hearings, delays, legal fees .. and in some parts of the world you have to pay the other side's legal costs if you lose! This all could be risky especially when you more than likely aren't a local or have someone 'inside'.

Only you can decide what this would mean to you if you went through it, either way. It's already been established that this casino has 'issues' at times and the governing authority may only be able to fine them for whatever violation occurred, but have no authority to force them to pay you anything .. and there's more than likely no basis for the Player to pay you back either, even if named in the suit.

Lots of dust for what? If you plan on playing at that location again, or perhaps any other locations where you might pop up on facial recognition, you could just get shown the door. GL

Buddy,
i"m gonna tell you something what you won't like:

I know most of the guys who play in this game, and you have been screwed.
Utterly, totally screwed, out of your money. This pot was yours, and the whole discussion (i speak german fluently) was simply to find some kind of justification (there was none) to take the money from you. You are not a regular there, these guys are, and they used that to their (very unfair) advantage.

The bad thing: Situation is over, as has been said before in this thread, you should have said something right then, stopped the game, whatever ... unclear (since you don't speak german and they clearly were ganging up against you) if this would have changed anything, but that was your only chance.

Good thing (if any): Try to learn from the situation, don't play in games where a lot of people (very obviously) know each other very well, and on top of that, don't play games that are possibly too big for you, and don't do this while drinking.

Again, technically that was clearly your money ... but other people have been screwed at King's Casino for way more money before ... i know, doesn't help you, just FYI.

Oh, and one more thing regarding bringing this to a higher authority/regulators/etc.:

Forget it. This is Czech Republic, Leon is a big taxpayer there, and "works" with the authorities hand in hand. Trying to do this would only get you into more trouble, believe me.

It's probably -$EV to take this further at this point, and definitely -LifeEV

But yeah you got screwed.
Don't play PLO with 20 sec shot clock in foreign countries for heaps of money.

This is the problem with private/home/underground games… they tend to protect the marks in the game.

This really is all on the guy accepting the pot. He could just as easily paid the bet and been done with it.

Hopefully karma pays you in a multiple OP.

Tbf the other guy is the one that actively blocks the pot from being given to OP. It's not like he stays quiet and could refuse it after the dealer tries to give it to him. He instigates the whole circus about time banks being misused and definitely wants the pot for himself

at 5:59:52 you were given the correct bet count by the dealer after dealers count, thats when the clock needs to start. (before you were given wrong amount by the friends of the players)
at 6:00:59 you said call. I exactly took the time, check its 100% correct. with the 20s u have and 4 time chips you had left this was in time. Even if you only had 3 chips left you are well within the time, you were in the right and got f.

do not do this again, you got truely screwed here. You should not be in that game if you cannot defend yourself against cheaters. the guy was on tilt and clearly wanted to manipulate the ruling. You look like a lamb between wolves btw, like easy prey. They sensed that and took advantage of it. Do not repeat, you are too nice or too young to play with these guys.

Not even them, the casino, can buy their own arguments. So they took down the video. Lol. Why? Because a casino associated to the wsop cannot rob a player on stream.

That leaves only a few option I believe.

-this thread gets moved and gets more publicity
-so 2+2 takes over the case.
-joeingram takes over the case and is a hero again.
(One video message from him and it gets corrected)
-doug polk makes a video
-mike matusow makes case
-solve for guys make a video
-jamie kerstetter and marle make a video
(Same outcome, Leon sees the tape and apologizes for the dealer)

All you need is publicity, trust me, and things go smoothly.

Noteworthy is also that nobody in this thread has said it's the players fault. Thats rare, because the evidence clearly speaks for the player.

Agree with the point that some publicity would be good. Although not sure if Mike the mouth would help the cause..... after his input into the Mike Postle saga I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to give the villain in this hand a chance to tell his side!

Fwiw, I think Mike didnt do that in bad faith. I followed the thing, and if Im not mistaking he wanted to hear both sides of the story, which is always a good thing imo. He was also probably influenced from what chris moneymaker was saying. He is not called Mike the Mouth for nothing. I think if there is anyone who could help, he would be one of them. His heart is in the right place imo. Cmon its Mikey I do not think the villain would come on under any circumstance, there is too much evidence against him and he knows that. The guy should have given the pot right away to the rightful winner, as of now its straight up cheating what happened, or spupid drunks who could not count the right time. Definetely a terrible mistake made by the dealer. And the dealer might not even know how he was manipulated by all the players, maybe after watching the tape he felt bad.

I do not even think leon is aware of this whole matter, it was just a shifting blame game by some managment people, nobody likes to admit a mistake. But as half czech myself, I feel kind of bad it happened and think czechs are generally good and honest people, in gereral I think if this gets to leon I think he would make it right. Nino could probaly walk up to him right now in the middle of the wsop, I think leon is present now, show him the tape and he makes it right, he does not care about 30k. (which is of course a bit unrealistic, since OP cannot just go there and play james bond and hopes he finds leon. So it has to get to him differently. Overall it does not look good, leon winning and losing millions on streams, and op being stiffed out of his money. Its pretty impressing though, what he has accomplished there. They are hosting the wsop as we speak: https://kings-resort.com/de

Hello everyone,

Kings seems to have deleted the replay from twitch. Luckily I saved it on my phone combined with other evidence and uploaded the video to YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjidXmgZHew

Im trying to get to the attention of a well connected poker community member and eventually to Leon to see if he can resolve the issue.

If anyone has a way of direct contact with a well known community members (such as joyingram, Doug, Phil helmuth, Mike, Jamie or Leon)
Please let me know!

I embedded the video:



I watched the tape now over and over, it is superclear what happened:
The players on left and right of the dealer can and are looking directly at the clock, and they both give Nino the countdown, when he asks how much times he has. Not the dealer as he is supposed to, but he didnt have to the players gave the correct countdown.

Nino : "How much time I have? "

Player A: "20 more seconds!" (next to Nino grey shirt and also next to dealer and clock)

Player B: "20 more seconds! , 15, 14, 10! " (other side of dealer, also with directly looking at clock)

When he says "10 seconds!" Nino tosses in chip in fewer than 5 seconds and says call.

Here is the WhatsApp converstation I had with Tereza the Cash Game Manager of Kings Casino. It shows how wrong and unhelpfull Kings was in trying to resolve the issue. As well as just being factually incorrect.











Shotclock at the time I make the call

sucks man, regardless of anything, dealer should be clearly counting down and stating when hand is dead

nobody should ever not know whether their hand has been killed or not

obv no experience at kings nor shot clocks but feel like this is pretty common sense that the status of your hand being live or not shouldn't be kept in double secret probation

unrelated but still related somehow:
The whole CZ is in lockdown, but Kings Casino continues WSOP Europe with tourneys having 1000+ players, 10 handed tables, no masks, etc. ... while outside (and i guess inside too) Covid is having a party.

so much for regulation ...

forget the money, you will never get anything back, take it as a lesson (in poker and life)

Exactly this! Nino acted as he was told. He asked out loud the dealer, directly how much time he has, at least 2 times. If anything, it was the dealers fault to not answer and then make the wrong decision at the end. We all know this by now.

I don't think it's that easy and have to disagree, I mean if Leon sees this, he would likey say, um yeah, I can see that it was my dealers fault. We have seen things corrected by many sites online and live casinos once we the spotlight was on it. I mean, we are basically broadcasting now with the video how it really went down vs the version of the casino. All it needs is publicity, remember BOL bad beat jackpot fixed by Joey etc? And this is not just any casino, it's the biggest in Europe hosting the wsop. And Leon is not just any random person, who is inaccessible or unreasonable. I think he is very reasonable once you talk to him. And he couldn't care less about the money, he is playing playing slots 5k a spin, and million dollar pots on YouTube and twitch. Its the principle. A player of the Czech players union said it's a very solid place, I agree or they wouldn't be hosting the wsop. Surely mistakes can happen, but if we see them, it's kinda our job to fix them. This is a little like David vs goliath, yeah, but it could be us and it is fixable. A nice good gesture of Leon would even bring him publicity and money, he could buy him into a few wsop events hosted at his casino.

i love your optimism pal, but that's not how they operate.
the game where it happened is a semi-private game inside the casino, with a promoter bringing in players (therefore getting a cut of the rake), when you look at the game and the players these are mainly not pros, but guys, who also very likely gamble in the pits.

you seriously think Leon would risk annoying them, for some unknown guy he'd likely never see again?

don't get me wrong, i'm not judging or criticizing anything, just describing realities.

Thanks pal, I'm not getting you wrong, no worries, no offence taken. I appreciate your knowledge, but just don't see how he would annoy them. He would likely annoy much more people, if not drive thousands of poker players away, if he didn't fix it. I think it's much more about reputation. This game was a 5h+ livestream on kings' twitch channel, the dealer was kings' staff. If anything, this was supposed to bring king's casino people, so I see it rather as a marketing effort made by kings, that went horribly wrong. The responsibility lies with king's. They are the ones that put their name on it and broadcasted it.

ok, final try to explain my point:
that's not how they think and/or operate.

Nobody talks about this (except a few people in here).
doing something about it might actually bring it back into the light, so no, nothing will be done about it.

I'd actually bet you any amount if you'd ask Theresa right now she'd deny this incident ever happened or that he had a conversation about it. She regularly rips apart full cash games because a CZ VIP shows up, doesn't have a seat, so she opens up a new table, same limit, and if you don't run fast enough (this is no joke) to the new table, you are sitting at an empty table that was full just minutes ago.

Yeah Leon is the dude that free rolled Matt Kirk for millions, as well as an Asian pro when he was staking like half the table of German pros against the Asian Reg, and random VIPs.

Dudes not giving a random PLO player 27k out of his pocket…