Well I guess that's where I disagree. A dealer should only kill a folded hand.

If the hand was folded (to the point of actually touching muck) its dead. IMO its silly to say after you can
1. fold your UNTABLED hand and make it part of the muck
then, 2. Watch a pot being pushed.
and then 3. Expect your hand to become live.

There was plenty that went wrong with this hand:

Not tabled.
Dealer not completely sweeping hand into muck.
OPTAH.

Hand is dead in my opinion.

I legit LOL'd.


Folded hands are already dead. No need to kill something that is already dead. Also, don't get folded confused with mucked. They are different.

I mentioned this once before itt...

Not that I disagree with your opinion. Personally, I think there should be a rule that effectively would make this a dead hand. Something like: A mucked hand is dead if it is retrieved after an OPTAH violation. In fact, I may just add that to my rules in the near future.

If the cards are identifiable and retrievable the answer is yes. Still a violation of Oprah but still the punishment if any goes to the one who blurted not the kicker who retrieved his cards.

Just like touching the muck does not mean the hand was mucked. Agreeing with you will not magically muck the hand. In this case since V won the pot it is now impossible to muck that hand. The coulda shoulda woulda are all a diff discussion.

Didn't know Oprah played poker, much less had a rule named after her.

One Player Rah!! A rule against too many celebrants? Only enforced when the BBJ hits, obviously.

Would be OK/ excellent if there was a universal rule to cover when a hand is dead, mucked, retrievable and so on. There is not! It varies from room to room and very likely from floor to floor in the same room. It is OK to rant about how it should be , BUT The room makes the rules and enforces or does not enforce them as they want. That's how it really is. Deal with it or not.

Find. True. All agree that should be optah. But 6’s misbehavior should not punish 2. Once 2’s hand was tabled best hand wins

You can't fold at showdown. And your and my opinions only matter if we write the room rules or are the floor making a ruling.

Plent was wrong but best hand won and ultimately that is what showdown is about.

Even better, you could not apply OPTAH at showdown at all.

The game should end when action is closed.

Interesting comment ...
1) When does a hand start/stop? With or without an auto-shuffler?
2) When does the 'English only' rule apply? Only if both players have cards?
3) At what stake do rooms 'loosen' the rules and allow player more 'freedom'?


A room manager/Floor needs to set the tone that is best for the type of patrons they see most often. This is smart business. Although it would be great if every room followed 'the rules' exactly the same, since typically IMO poker players are just looking for consistent enforcement .. even if they don't agree with a rule ... it's just not going to happen. So buyer beware .. .

Do you expect the same meatballs at every Italian stop? And don't fire back about the 'rules' of meatballs .. they are balls made of meat and then each chef puts their own little twist on them. GL

1) First riff or touch the green button. A ends when B begins.
2) Anytime the one speaking or being spoken to has cards. Could even be anytime anyone at the table has cards.
3) 5-10 for NLHE almost always, some places 2-5, esp if no cap or lots of straddles, and any stakes for PLO is the is a mandatory straddle, otherwise 2-5.

All IMO

this thread kept getting interested, page 1 was agreat read imo