Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
They shouldn't be retrievable if they were mucked face down and his intent was 100% clear he wanted to muck his hand. Since the hand wasn't tabled, the other players are not obligated to read the hand and help the player to either table or muck his cards. In fact, doing so is a violation of OPTAH AINECAA.
Nobody disagrees that OPTAH was violated. But most people think that a OPTAH violation should not kill a hand and that the person to punish for said violation is the player who committed it by speaking up and not the player that received unsolicited advice.
Also, nobody disagrees that the hand shouldn't be retrievable. But that doesn't mean it can't be retrieved if it is retrievable anyway. The person at fault for that is the dealer, not the player who tried to muck.
So yes, OPTAH violation and yes, hand shouldn't be retrievable. But that doesn't change the fact that in the end, the hand was up face-up on the table at showdown in which case the best hand should win. That's what happened here. Blame the player who violated OPTAH, blame the dealer who didn't muck the cards but don't blame the player who realized he had a winner that was still retrievable and acted accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12bigworm81
Hand was mucked. You win.
Hand wasn't mucked. He lost.