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05-15-2024 , 11:15 PM
Hi all,

Playing 1/2 plo and I’m not really paying attention to the action, I have a completely garbage hand and this dude standing behind me railing comes over and I show him my hand to show him how bad it is and jokingly say to him “all in” and chuckle. I then quickly muck but the cards are retrievable. The stuck gambler who raised wants my “bet” to be committing and calls the floor over.

The floor says my all in bet stands and makes me put in a pot sized raise ($175). Was this outcome fair even though I was obviously joking and “all in” isn’t even a legal bet?

Thanks,
DT

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 05-15-2024 at 11:20 PM.
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05-15-2024 , 11:22 PM
I guess you won't do that again
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05-15-2024 , 11:53 PM
Over bets in PLO are treated as a pot sized bet. Players shove all their chips in or announce all-in all the time knowing the dealer will likely correct the bet.

Don't make jokes that involve poker action lingo when you have a live hand.
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05-15-2024 , 11:55 PM
It's not always going to be ruled that way, but yes if you verbalize a bet while action is on you, don't be surprised if you're held to it, even if you were "obviously" joking.

A bet of all-in that is too high for the current pot should be corrected down to the maximum pot bet (which presumably it was).

It might have been better if your hand had been irretrievable, because then it's possible the floor might have returned any uncalled raise amount back to you if no one had yet acted on it. But you can't really rely on this either.
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05-16-2024 , 12:04 AM
Ruling "all-in" as the maximum legal bet, in this case a pot sized raise, is the right call. Otherwise that would provide plenty of angle opportunities. Imagine there's $75 in the pot and "all-in" was a binding bet if your stack size is $75 but had no meaning if your stack size was $76.

In my very personal opinion, I would hold you to the raise if action was on you when you announced it. If action was on a different player I would like for the dealer to immediately halt action and tell you to knock it off unless you want for it to be a binding OOT raise unless action changed in front of you.
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05-16-2024 , 12:10 AM
Right call
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05-16-2024 , 12:32 AM
On the bright side its only a $175 lesson for you. Imagine if the conversation happened on a street where it would have taken all of your stack which could be a lot more money.

Hopefully you will learn from this. I would never show my cards to anyone while in a hand. Maybe you can do it after you say fold but for me there is no point in it. Things can only go south.

Similarly, I wouldn't talk to anyone during a hand especially when in the middle of a betting round.

Once at Foxwoods a guy started talking when it was his turn to bet and he accidentally said the word "fold" while he was talking. He had the nuts. And was forced to fold.

The only time I will talk during a betting round is if I want to bet an amount that is different than the chips I have in front of me. And even then I often will increase or decrease my bet sizing slightly so I don't have to speak out loud.
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05-16-2024 , 12:38 AM
Opponent is a bit douchey for enforcing this imo, but a good way to prevent yourself from being put in that position is to not make dumb jokes when the action is on you. Those chips in front of you are worth real money, not joke money, so act like it.

As a general rule, I avoid saying any action while the action is on me unless I'm intended to make said action. I would extend this beyond just not making jokes. If I'm in position heads up and I'm not sure if my opponent acted, I will say something like "Is it on me?" rather than "Did they check?" because I've seen countless times where that happens and all the dealer hears is check and they bring the next card.

Yes, ruling "all-in" as a pot-sized bet if you stack is bigger than the pot is 100$ correct. Way too many angle opportunities otherwise.
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05-16-2024 , 03:04 AM
All in is a legal bet in plo. You should never show your cards to anyone. However the floor ruling is overly draconian, you should be given a warning and not forced to all in. But I don't hate the ruling. This is not a matter you should be joking about.
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05-16-2024 , 04:56 AM
If I was your friend who you flashed to, my response would switch to an eye roll/don't care, to an actual laugh.
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05-16-2024 , 08:11 AM
As someone who appreciates and follows your postings in 'PBG' thread, but also notices that you get yourself into all sorts of sticky situations while playing poker, I ask you the following question;

How would you have handled the situation if the V was the one to do what you did?

A decent percentage of me thinks you would have been making a thread highlighting this 'injustice' and looking to seek V be held accountable.
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05-16-2024 , 08:26 AM
Typically these spots are handled at the table with some light humor and the game moves on. But as we all know, once the Floor is involved you 'may' open yourself up to a ruling going the opposite way.

I'm assuming you are a table captain .. other than dragging a pot there's nothing better to some Players than to see a captain get humbled

Player on tilt just opens up the door for Floor to be called even more. My guess is that V had a good hand and was frustrated they wouldn't see any value from it.

The fact that you showed your hand .. again as a captain .. probably added to the Floor call, and even perhaps the Floor ruling. GL
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05-16-2024 , 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Perrone66
As someone who appreciates and follows your postings in 'PBG' thread, but also notices that you get yourself into all sorts of sticky situations while playing poker, I ask you the following question;

How would you have handled the situation if the V was the one to do what you did?

A decent percentage of me thinks you would have been making a thread highlighting this 'injustice' and looking to seek V be held accountable.
lol I would never ask that someone be committed to a raise if the shoe was on the other foot. That would just be idiotic of me and against the spirit of the game. I want people to have a good time and let these minor things slide.
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05-16-2024 , 09:25 AM
Is there a way to jokingly say "call" while the action is on you? Jokingly say "fold"? Or is "all in" the only version of this? I can't imagine that you would let someone take back a "joking" fold.

You are discounting the angle possibility too much, probably because you were the one who said it and know what you meant.

I personally have a low tolerance for players who break rules and norms that are easier to follow than to break (e.g. discussing their holdings in a multi-way pot, jokingly saying "all-in", etc.). These people are operating within their own narrow definition of "a good time" while everyone else groans at their **** and maneuvers around them. Your joke was for you and your buddy and nobody else.
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05-16-2024 , 10:30 AM
Don't show your hand to players/bystanders.

Don't joke about "all-in" when action is on you. You're a experienced player who should know that.

Question: Did you go on to win the hand?
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05-16-2024 , 10:36 AM
How could a "verified Coach" possibly think you can say "I'm all in" when action's on you and then laugh and say "I was just kidding"... Verbal is binding in poker!
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05-16-2024 , 02:02 PM
You have been playing the game long enough to know that verbal is binding and that your "joke" using a poker term of art isn't funny.
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05-17-2024 , 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Playbig2000
How could a "verified Coach" possibly think you can say "I'm all in" when action's on you and then laugh and say "I was just kidding"... Verbal is binding in poker!
I didn't say "I'm all in," I said "all in" and laughed - to the dude railing me off the table. There's a pretty big difference and intent should be clear here even to an observer. And I didn't even realize the action was on me.

My mistake for trying to keep it fun and loosening up a little and letting the degen stuck gambler rule shark me like that, I was trying to show my buddy off the table a good time (and this really isn't uncommon), he is a nice guy and I was keeping the vibe light.

I'll be a super serious no fun and games poker pro from now on, one of the those antisocial robots who surely isn't chasing all the recreational players away from the game.

I don't see how trying to keep a fun and lighthearted table vibe makes someone a worse coach. It makes them more human though.

I'm a coach but I also like to try to have a good time when I am playing cards!

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 05-17-2024 at 12:23 AM.
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05-17-2024 , 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk
I'll be a super serious no fun and games poker pro from now on, one of the those antisocial robots who surely isn't chasing all the recreational players away from the game.
If it's between an antisocial robot and somebody who announces all-in while action is on them and then tries to argue about it instead of manning up and learning from it, I'd pick the former.

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Originally Posted by Playbig2000
How could a "verified Coach"
FWIW, "verified coach" means the owners of the website verified his identity. Not his coaching ability. Everybody who likes to offer their coaching services on here can do that.
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05-17-2024 , 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by crsseyed
Don't show your hand to players/bystanders.

Don't joke about "all-in" when action is on you. You're a experienced player who should know that.

Question: Did you go on to win the hand?
I folded pre after I was forced to raise two people after me went all in. I had 94443. I would have lost.
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05-17-2024 , 03:42 AM
In general I don't think that trying to amuse a railbird is likely to lead to a better atmosphere among the players.
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05-17-2024 , 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk
Was this outcome fair
You didn't like the answers to this did you?

Pretty simple.
Don't say raise/call/fold when the action is on you.
Pay attention to the action, instead of entertaining the railbirds.
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05-17-2024 , 08:42 AM
I think it's fine to hold you to a raise here without more deets. You can be fun but still know to not joke about things that may affect gameplay. I personally wouldn't have made you raise if I was in the hand.

Also uncertain if you were held up an all in bet that was more than pot which I wouldn't allow. I've heard some recent chat about holding people to all in in plo because of action offered and accepted but that should be the exception when both people are aware of it (if allowed at all) not some sort of Surprise ruling.
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05-17-2024 , 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pwnsall
Also uncertain if you were held up an all in bet that was more than pot which I wouldn't allow. I've heard some recent chat about holding people to all in in plo because of action offered and accepted but that should be the exception when both people are aware of it (if allowed at all) not some sort of Surprise ruling.
He definitely should not be held to an all-in. His announcement of "all-in" should be ruled as the maximum allowed raise which in this case means pot.
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05-17-2024 , 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk
I didn't say "I'm all in," I said "all in" and laughed !
It's six and one half dozen of the other (it's the same thing).

I also like to have fun and I definitely despise all the mostly young "grinders" who sit there in hoodies wearing huge studio headphones who seem like they're too important to be conversing with the other players.

You can't say any action words when it's your turn to act unless you really mean it or it won't usually end too well as you've learned (hopefully, since you still believe it was ok).
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