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Originally Posted by browni3141
Can you articulate in more detail why you think this is unethical? Who cares if it's an "undeserved advantage?" What if a friend provides me with reads on a player in private, or even just shares a hand he played with a person. This also yields an advantage that was "undeserved," yet neither of these things are considered unethical (or do you disagree?)
Sharing information acquired through the course of standard game play is not unethical. Acquiring information you would otherwise not have access to in order to gain an advantage, though, is completely different. You are not entitled, in the standard course of a session, to know what people's uncalled cards are.
Getting that information passively, while probably not cheating, is unethical because you are violating the integrity of the game and getting an advantage outside the rules of normal game play. Getting that information actively is cheating, plain and simple.
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Gaining insight into someone's strategy is not the same thing as having knowledge we're not supposed to have during a hand which would be cheating. Not everything that yields one player an advantage that other's may not have is cheating. It might be unfair to a very small degree, but I don't see how it's cheating.
Because it is not information you are entitled to have, by the rules of the game. What part of this are you having trouble with. If a hand has not been called, the player is not obligated to reveal his holding by most rule sets.
Getting that ionformation in violation of those rules is cheating.
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Both of your examples are covered by rules, although maybe not TDA rules. The rules of hold'em require a single standard deck of 52 cards. Adding additional cards violates the rules of hold'em. Theft is illegal almost everywhere in the world and doesn't need to be explicitly covered by the rules.
Not everybody has the same ethical standards, so I'm not sure how this is clear as day cheating like you say if there is nothing about it in the rules. If it's not in the rules then it's a social etiquette issue, which makes the issue both subjective and context dependent.
So, you don't think those same rules don't have provisions making it agianst the rules to look at someone's concealed hand without their knowledge?
Again, if you are flashed cards and see them without intentionally trying, but say nothing, this is unethical but not likely cheating (though strict interpretation of the rules by some would say that if you did not disclose the information you have, you are cheating). But actively taking steps to see someone elses cards when you have no right to see them, even if you aren't in the hand, is cheating.
If you feel so strongly that it is OK, try doing it openly at the next major tournament you play in or the next time you play a decent sized cash game, and see if the floor agrees with you that you did not break any rules.