Long story short. I play 2 days a week. I've never cashed over 10k, but they "require" my SSN sometimes when I cash out (usually anywhere between 3k to 9k when I cash out and they ask). I've always refused. They denied cashing me out last week because of it. Last night they tried to again. I got lottery to come down. They cashed me out but the cashier said for now on they will refuse if she sees me.

I just really prefer not to because it's my SSN. I've had someone who somehow got a hold of it open jewelry store accounts in the past then pawn a ton of jewelry under my name. I have nothing to hide. No kids so no child support, I don't owe the government money or anything.

I've been told by other players never give them my SSN. I've been told by others it's not a big deal at all. Just curious as to what other people think.

They are asking because the US Dept of Treasury/FinCEN requires them to do reporting on large cash transactions, typically called a CTR, or currency transaction report. It is part of the anti-money-laundering statute. All financial institutions (banks, casinos, etc.) are required to follow it.

A CTR is required at 10k or above per day, but in order to make sure people aren't structuring to avoid the reporting thresholds, most casinos (and banks) collect info at levels of 2-5k instead for tracking purposes (i.e. it may just be internal, not reported as a CTR, until you hit the 10k number in a day).

Typically if you don't provide it, they will instead log a SAR, or Suspicious Activity Report, on you instead. This probably makes it more likely that DoT will secretly investigate you.

If you're not doing anything wrong, then none of this will matter most likely, other than the hassle of arguing about it every time you go to cash out. Or they may (as you note) also refuse to do business with you in the future, which many of us would consider to be quite painful.

You can search for "CTR" in this forum to find many previous posts about this topic. Possibly this link might work as a shortcut. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...rchid=66770250

The easiest way to get on the government's radar is by refusing those forms. You're daring them to fill out a SAR and eventually ban you.

Cashiers collect that information all day every day from players in the pit, who go over the limits a lot more than the average poker player. Nothing ever happens from it. It's not reported as income and it's unlikely to get stolen and used for identity theft.

If you continue to refuse, first instead of a harmless CTR they will file a SAR. SAR is a much bigger deal. BTW, they likely already filed at least one SAR on you.

Second, they will simply refuse your business. You will be told not to return.

While a CTR is required by law at $10K, there is nothing keeping casino from imposing there own lower limit. Since that $10K is in aggregate, if the suspect you might, even unknowingly, cross that $10K limit today, they can ask.

You can certainly refuse to provide your SSN. You will get SARs. You will get banned.

BTW, odds are high that your SSN is already available. You have given it to other companies. Why do you think they will keep it safer? The regs for ID security is the same. Banks have breaches. Hospitals have breaches. Brokerages have breaches. Schools have breaches.

They have a legal requirement to collect your SSN. They will fulfill they legal requirements to protect the company.

Dude, the cage isn't stealing your identity they're covering their butts from the Feds. When they say they won't cash you out in the future they aren't saying it lightly.

Well obviously I know they aren't going to steal my identity. It's more of the fact of it being a possibility of causing other potential issues in the future that I keep hearing about. Though I'm not sure if it's just hearsay which is why I posted here

Casinos / Card rooms need to have and maintain a solid and consistent Anti Money Laundering (AML) compliance program. Like mentioned previously, they have internal policy to collect the info above a certain threshold, even if that amount is below $10k. I had one weekend where I went to the casino cage to cash slot machine tickets on a few occasions. One occasion, cashed around $1,800 in tickets. They asked for ID and Players Card. Another time I cashed about $2,500 in tickets, different cashier, no ask for ID/card. A third trip, about $2k in tickets, and
was asked for ID/card. I chuckled and asked what their policy was and they said anything at $3k and above they ask, but also they can ask for any $$ amount under that as well.

Casinos want to protect themselves from Fines for non-compliance with their own AML policies. See recent fines applied to MGM: https://www.moneylaunderingnews.com/...lving-casinos/

California Card rooms had a similar batch of AML policy and oversight deficiencies pre-covid which led to an enforcement action and focus put on players lending/giving other players cash within a cardroom or casino. After those came out, my local casino in Iowa made a rule that you could not give another player buy-in money within their sight, but dealers would quietly say just go to the bathroom together.

In today's world, everyone's ssn has been compromised at least once.

It falls to the individual to monitor their credit records and report suspected fraud. Or you can pay a company to do it for you but, imo, that can lead to a false sense of security, so I recommend doing it yourself. It's not hard or complicated, and only takes a few minutes each time...most experts advise checking quarterly.

Visit each of the 3 credit bureaus and create an account. Review your reports for incorrect or fraudulent info and immediately alert them to any issues. To prevent (most) fraud in the future, place a lock on your credit so new accounts can't be opened without further verification.

They have the same regs for keeping your identification information secure as anyone else who collects it. Even my own little one person side gig is charged with maintaining such security.

They have a legal need and requirement to the info. You have no grounds to refuse. Should you continue to refuse, they will file an SAR (likely already have). They have also put you on notice. The next time you refuse, you might be able to force them to cash you out but I bet it will be the last time you are welcome in that facility. Even banks have been known to fire customers. It is becoming more common.

All you need to do is find out what the amount is that they require ID, then just cash out a lower amount at different times (and with a diff. teller, otherwise you might get threatened to almost put a teller "in jail" and get yelled at, and made to go to the main casino cage which I learned the hard way).

They do have the right to ask you for your credentials and if you refuse, you won't be allowed to cash out there at best or at worst get banned, so it's up to you.

Dinesh's post is spot on.

Trying to avoid these guidelines is more trouble than it's worth, and in a lot of casinos is completely useless as there is often good communication between surveillance and separate cages who are specifically looking out for this sort of behavior. If/when you're noticed, now you're getting that SAR filled out and everything you tried to avoid now goes deeper.

Now you know that not giving up the id is even more likely to cause issues?

I said I give them my players card and ID

100% do not do this, this is the quickest way to get in pretty serious trouble, at best you get banned from that casino and other sister properites and that is best case scenario.

WOW!!! TIME OUT! STOP. what is described is called structuring and it is a crime. DO NOT DO THIS.

Structuring will get a SAR filed certainly. It will get investigated and good chance to be charged. If prosecuted and convicted the penalty can be a fine up to $250K and/or up to 5 years in prison. Under certain conditions these penalties can be doubled.

Okay so from how it sounds, it really isn't a big deal to give it to them and I might as well just do it. I've heard many different things that make it sound like a bad idea and to just not do it like the possibility of them wanting to see records of wins/losses at the end of the year, tax types of things, among other pain in the ass stuff. I'm not trying to avoid taxes. I'm just trying to avoid anything that might cause a headache in the future. Who's to say I could have 200k in cash outs but I lost 250k for the year now I have to prove it.

I really prefer to not get banned. It just frustrates me that's everybody else I've asked said they've NEVER been asked for their SSN even when cashing out close to 10k. Yet I get asked even for 4k.

They're lying or they don't remember.

In theory, you only have to do it once (maybe per year but not 100%). So once the casino has it on file, you shouldn't need to provide it again. Those claiming they don't have to likely already gave it up but it may have been too long ago for them to remember. If they are regs, the cage staff don't even bother asking for ID because they already know their name and that the casino has a SSN on file. Some rooms give their cage staff access to Bravo/PokerAtlas so they can just open up the table and find they player's info on their own if they need it.

Depending on the place, it may take some time before your account is properly marked to show you've provided a SSN. I've worked in rooms where I can immediately mark we've gotten one, and I've worked in rooms where we just have to file the W9 and wait until another department receives it and updates your account on their end, which can take weeks.

Edit - Most patrons don't realize that separate departments do have the ability to communicate. If somebody hit a slot jackpot 3 years ago that required a SSN, the casino probably still has it on file. Hell, if you won a $100 high hand last week, there's a good chance they have one on file.

I'll give a different perspective. My identity was stolen about a year and a half ago, and I am almost certain it stemmed from giving my SSN to one of several casinos.

The reason I think it is related to the casinos is because I had recently filled out multiple forms at S Florida casinos that included my SSN (S Florida is scammer central, for anyone who doesn't know). I had not recently applied for any loans or really given out my SSN at all for quite some time before this.

At these casinos any time you hit a "bonus hand," like quads for a few hundred dollar to couple thousand dollar bonus, they make you fill out a little form that includes your SSN. I filled out several of these forms in a couple months period.

Shortly after this I got a notice from a credit monitoring service I subscribe to that someone tried to file taxes in my name (not near tax time). I had to fill out a report stating that it wasn't me, and the IRS gave me a code that I would need in order to file paper taxes for the next two years (I couldn't file online anymore after this).

I instituted a credit freeze. Knock on wood but I haven't had any serious problems so far.

I did have a few other things happen that I think are related to this same breach. I had people try to log in to my Facebook account several times, but it seems they were unable to get in since I have 2-factor identification turned on. I just got texts and emails randomly from Facebook stating xxx is your 2-factor identification code. But as far as I can tell no one actually got into my account.

More worrying is that someone also created an account in my name on id.me, and I got an email from them like I was the one who created the account. This is a service used to verify your identity online for tax and other purposes. Pretty much if someone was able to create a verified account in my name they would effectively be me for whatever they wanted to do online. This is the official site the US government and IRS uses to verify your identity.

I sent them correspondence saying it wasn't me that created the account. It's unclear if whoever was trying to create the account succeeded in whatever they were trying to accomplish.

Anyway, I refuse to write my SSN down on those little forms anymore. Now I just say, "you already have my SSN on record."

They generally hassle me a little, and make me walk up to the cage, but they are eventually able to verify and give me my payout. My thinking is that the cage having access to my SSN is less apt to cause problems than the little forms that chip runners have you fill out.

Presumably the cage has some sort of security and hopefully limits who has access to this info. With the chip runners all it takes is one rogue employee to steal your identity, and who knows where those forms are ending up or how many people could potentially lay eyes on them.

Protect yourself. How far you go and what you feel comfortable with is up to you.

I might get 5 years in prison and fined $250K for what? I didn't do anything wrong.

In my poker room anything over 3K needs to be approved by a supervisor, which they have to call over from the main cage while I'm waiting in line with people behind me asking what's the hold up (they won't call her over unless they have my chips counted out on the counter). If an SAR is submitted and they investigate me they won't find any crimes, I'm innocent.

Structuring is illegal.

If you break up cash out to avoid a CTR being filed, you have done something wrong. In fact it is a crime. Breaking into multiple transactions under the threshold is the definition of structuring. The amounts are not important. It is the intent to avoid a CTR.

There have been small businesses killed by FinCEN when funds were seized. In at least one case a small cash business had a history of making high 4 figure deposits couple of times a week. They were not structuring but depositing the excess accumulated funds. FinCEN claimed otherwise but by time biz won, the biz was gone due to no money to run on.

your situation may be to avoid a supervisor check, but you really don’t know. And in OP situation, it is almost definite they are filing a CTR. Thus what you recommend might not be a crime for your fact set but almost definitely is in OP fact set. You were literally suggesting op commit a crime.

You attempted to evade reporting which is itself illegal. As others said, that is structuring. 31 USC 5324 (b)(3):

The penalty:

Structuring is a federal crime. (It is weird that they do not define what structuring actually is in that part of the code, but its meaning is clear.)

Unlike others here, I don't actually think doing this as an individual at a casino is likely to result in you being charged with anything, if you're not actually committing other financial crimes like ML or supporting terrorism. But the minute they think you might be useful to some other investigation they have, you have a much higher chance of being charged so they can leverage it to force you to help them for something else. Also they can seize your structured money from you too, and you'll have to fight (and pay) to get it back.

There is little upside and much more annoying potential downside to structuring. Just cash out your full amount and give them your ID when asked.

Prosecutors get nuts though. If you do this, and it triggers an investigation, and they think you're a drug dealer, they'll try to get you on any thing they can.

OP should just post in SSN ITT so we can verify if there's been any ID theft.