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Old 09-01-2020, 12:39 PM   #501
prizminferno
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Have played in NH quite a bit during this. You're fine, there's nothing to worry about.
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:39 PM   #502
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Originally Posted by TomCollins View Post
...
If you are in a significant risk group, absolutely avoid being out in public as much as you can, and when you are out, try to avoid close quarters indoors, etc... But with no underlying conditions and under 80, you are never more than 0.5% to die of it. If you are above 80 or in poor health, and especially if you are over 60 and in poor health, take necessary cautions.
I don't agree with this.

From what I have read, the death rate between 60 and 70 years old is from about 1% to 3%. From 70 to 80 it ranges from 3% to 10%. Over 80 it is like 10%+

Even from 55 to 60 it is just over 0.5%.

Now I will agree that if you have no pre-existing conditions that put you at more risk then the risk of death will likely be lower than the numbers I cited which are averages for age ranges. But not that much lower and it assumes that you know that you have no preconditions.

If I was under 50 and in good health and not obese I would be playing in tournaments if they held them.
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Old 09-01-2020, 02:01 PM   #503
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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I don't agree with this.

From what I have read, the death rate between 60 and 70 years old is from about 1% to 3%. From 70 to 80 it ranges from 3% to 10%. Over 80 it is like 10%+

Even from 55 to 60 it is just over 0.5%.

Now I will agree that if you have no pre-existing conditions that put you at more risk then the risk of death will likely be lower than the numbers I cited which are averages for age ranges. But not that much lower and it assumes that you know that you have no preconditions.

If I was under 50 and in good health and not obese I would be playing in tournaments if they held them.
Studies show otherwise. It really comes down to underlying conditions or not, even up to pretty old ages. Now, underlying conditions can be pretty broad. It's *considerably* lower if you don't have the underlying conditions.

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Old 09-01-2020, 02:45 PM   #504
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Is “dying from it” one of your main Covid19 related concerns? I doubt that’s even in my top 5.

If the risk of death was my number 1 concern, I’d be playing poker tonight.
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:32 PM   #505
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Is “dying from it” one of your main Covid19 related concerns? I doubt that’s even in my top 5.

If the risk of death was my number 1 concern, I’d be playing poker tonight.
What are your top 5 concerns?
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:01 PM   #506
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Good question. Not necessarily 100% in that order:

- accidentally infecting random high risk persons
- infecting other low risk family members
- having to notify school which means the kid is going to be home all day, every day for two weeks
- mid/long term effects that some of my endurance athlete friends encounter while working out
- being part of the “problem” that’s responsible for the US being in the current state while life in other parts of the civilized world is basically back to normal


Not too different from my #1 fear in the car. That’s not dying in an accident but annoying stuff happening that won’t be covered by insurance.
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:19 PM   #507
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Originally Posted by madlex View Post
Good question. Not necessarily 100% in that order:

- accidentally infecting random high risk persons
- infecting other low risk family members
- having to notify school which means the kid is going to be home all day, every day for two weeks
- mid/long term effects that some of my endurance athlete friends encounter while working out
- being part of the “problem” that’s responsible for the US being in the current state while life in other parts of the civilized world is basically back to normal


Not too different from my #1 fear in the car. That’s not dying in an accident but annoying stuff happening that won’t be covered by insurance.
how's it feel to just exist and not live?
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:42 PM   #508
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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how's it feel to just exist and not live?
Pretty good, thank you for asking
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Old 09-01-2020, 06:20 PM   #509
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Is “dying from it” one of your main Covid19 related concerns? I doubt that’s even in my top 5.

If the risk of death was my number 1 concern, I’d be playing poker tonight.
Is this really something you think you can avoid?

Because for me it's a matter of when, not if. Pretty sure I caught H1N1 at some point.

It seems any time there is any relaxation, it continues to spread and will continue to spread until we get to herd immunity like places like the Northeast or Sweden or Italy has done.

I'm actually counting on being exposed to it in mild doses so that my immune system fights it off and I gain immunity, rather than a strong dose, so playing poker might be the best thing I can do.

Life can go back to normal as soon as you let it go back to normal. Stop listening to politicians with an agenda. Fight back against the insanity.
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:34 PM   #510
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Originally Posted by madlex View Post
Good question. Not necessarily 100% in that order:

- accidentally infecting random high risk persons
- infecting other low risk family members
- having to notify school which means the kid is going to be home all day, every day for two weeks
- mid/long term effects that some of my endurance athlete friends encounter while working out
- being part of the “problem” that’s responsible for the US being in the current state while life in other parts of the civilized world is basically back to normal


Not too different from my #1 fear in the car. That’s not dying in an accident but annoying stuff happening that won’t be covered by insurance.
Thanks for responding.

I also am concerned about infecting high risk people, my Mom is 93. I have seen her a couple of times and it is hard to interact without thinking I could be the cause of her death.

My main concern though is my wife who has MS. But oddly she seems to not get a lot of viruses. I'm thinking its because she has an overactive immune system (that attacks her) and she has never been on medication (which would suppress her immune system).

I really don't think much about getting my children sick as they are far more reckless than I am.

I agree with doing what I can to help the US get this under control. But it is depressing missing playing poker.
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Old 09-02-2020, 03:51 PM   #511
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex View Post
Good question. Not necessarily 100% in that order:

- accidentally infecting random high risk persons
- infecting other low risk family members
- having to notify school which means the kid is going to be home all day, every day for two weeks
- mid/long term effects that some of my endurance athlete friends encounter while working out
- being part of the “problem” that’s responsible for the US being in the current state while life in other parts of the civilized world is basically back to normal


Not too different from my #1 fear in the car. That’s not dying in an accident but annoying stuff happening that won’t be covered by insurance.
I've not seen anyone describe my Covid fears and the reasons I stay home so perfectly.
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Old 09-03-2020, 10:35 AM   #512
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

My (mis-adventure) continues @ BBCC. Tilted by two non-complying mask wearers @ 1/2 no- limit, move to 1/3, quickly tilt off $500. I think that someone (God?, 2plus2 posters?) are trying to tell me something, if only I could listen!

However, I very much appreciate the grinders who commented on this important topic. Thanks again!
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Old 09-03-2020, 11:44 AM   #513
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Tom Collins, please read this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick View Post
What I just read was that people who are pre-symptomatic will spread Covid with a much higher viral load than people who are symptomatic. Especially people who have been symptomatic for days. The absolute worst viral load will be spread just before they become symptomatic. QS: once the virus "becomes cellular" it is much harder to "share" with others.
This statement is correct. Unless I read your posts from the last few days incorrectly, you are spreading a bad opinion.

To the rest of you poker players, try to imagine your live poker sessions.... and then factor in that the CDC recommends teachers getting back to the classroom spend less than 15 minutes at a time in a closed room where teachers and students all wear masks.

Queen Spew
Immunology PhD
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Old 09-03-2020, 12:48 PM   #514
TomCollins
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Tom Collins, please read this:



This statement is correct. Unless I read your posts from the last few days incorrectly, you are spreading a bad opinion.

To the rest of you poker players, try to imagine your live poker sessions.... and then factor in that the CDC recommends teachers getting back to the classroom spend less than 15 minutes at a time in a closed room where teachers and students all wear masks.

Queen Spew
Immunology PhD
I'm not disagreeing with that. Simply that you can't use the infected rate and just assume every one of them is out there and spreading it. Either they are sick in bed and not spreading it, or they are only in the small portion of pre-symptomatic phase.

Only other point I had was based on initial viral load being a factor, and the absolute "best" case for someone and COVID is they get exposed and fight it off and their body is equipped to fight it off next time they see it.

I'm looking at the CDC recommendations and don't see anything about 15 minutes, other than "if you were in close contact with someone infected for 15 minutes, stay home".


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...e/schools.html

I will presume I'm better at wearing a mask than most children in a school (although others in a casino are pretty horrible at wearing masks).

My main opinion is that anyone who does not plan to spend the rest of their lives in quarantine will likely catch this at some point, and that each individual visit to a casino is small of catching it (at least smaller than they are imagining), although small probabilities run multiple times become near certainties. Playing in a casino every day for 6-8 hours for a month and you have fairly high odds of coming in contact. Playing occasionally as a rec player, you have better odds of dodging it.

Just to put my area in perspective, two county area of population ~2M, there are estimated 1000 cases (based on tests). Let's say there's 3x that due to pre-symptomatic people who haven't been tested and asymptomatic carriers. 14 day period for the spreaders and 3 days of it spreading before they either recover or isolate. That would mean 642 people out of the 2,000,000 would be likely spreading it. 1 out of every 3000 people in this case.

When I say being exposed to mild loads, I mean through reduced load through dual mask wearing, where even if someone is contagious, I'm getting a reduced load, and hand washing and not touching my face limits it. Temporary contact of a few hours but not living with them. And in the event I get sick, I get sick. I'm not in a risk group, I'm not in contact with people who are.
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:31 PM   #515
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

to me this is all about risk.
what is measurable
what is acceptable
what is manageable
what can I do to mitigate
never ever have human beings taken a single step on this planet without some risk of death.
and death is undefeated .
so to mitigate risk I will wear a mask and play poker in a state with measurably low levels of infection and accept what I measure to be an acceptable risk
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Old 09-03-2020, 03:28 PM   #516
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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to me this is all about risk.
what is measurable
what is acceptable
what is manageable
what can I do to mitigate
never ever have human beings taken a single step on this planet without some risk of death.
and death is undefeated .
so to mitigate risk I will wear a mask and play poker in a state with measurably low levels of infection and accept what I measure to be an acceptable risk
I am more concerned with becoming infected (and surviving) than I am with the “risk of death”. My understanding is “recovering” from Covid-19 can be a real *****.
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Old 09-03-2020, 04:16 PM   #517
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Another pharmaceutical company has created and is applying for emergency use under warp speed authorization for their nasal spray prophylaxis. This is great and exciting news.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Fight-COVID-19
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Old 09-04-2020, 04:03 PM   #518
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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I am more concerned with becoming infected (and surviving) than I am with the “risk of death”. My understanding is “recovering” from Covid-19 can be a real *****.
It can be, but I'm still waiting to see actual numbers rather than anecdotes. What % of people have what symptoms for how long, and what results, and what underlying conditions and age groups they were.

The other part of it is "am I legitimately going to be able to hide from this for the rest of my life, either through avoiding contact or activities that will give me this, or hoping that a vaccine will be ready in time, or that herd immunity reduces the risk to acceptable levels". The greater the threat, the more I'm willing to just isolate and let quality of life drop, and the less the threat, the more I will return to normal. Getting the flu absolutely sucks, and even in years I haven't gotten the vaccine, I'm not really altering my life for it. This is worse, but how much? I locked down while some information could be gathered and it does seem like at least for me and people I am in most close contact with, the risk is fairly minimal, while still exists. I'm just not confident enough that there will be any way to avoid this without an undesirable level of action, although I was prepared to do it at the start and got months worth of food and had the ability to completely isolate. For the first month, my entire family did not leave the property and the only people who entered were delivering packages (which I kept isolated for some time before opening), and family driving by and talking from a long distance.

But everyone has their own preferences and risk tolerance and I respect anyone making their own choices and doing what they think is best. Everyone's situation is different.
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:14 PM   #519
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

You may have glossed over the fact that even reported cases cming out everyday are mostly esitinated to be non infectious. I provided a link days ago regarding that. Also take a look at Alex Berenson on twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexBerenson. He has been covering this from the beginning, wrote a book and often retweets studies and facts that most media will not provide.

Also as I mentioned above the other day "Parnell pharmaceuticals" has created a nasal spray that has been proven in vitro by an independent lab to wipe out the virus. I also mentioned a month ago with another group from San Fran that had created "aeronabs". Seemingly the difference between their processes could be that Parnell, is a well established company with their own capabilities of production etc. They have also already applied for warp speed funding, and approval to manufacture/distribute under emergency act while stage 3 trials go on. The CEO has stated that the main active ingredient is already used in hundreds of other OTC products. Unlike the group from SF who needs to secure all that from 3rs party etc and has not afaik applied for warp speed process.

Here is the CEO of parnell pharmaceuticals Twitter (he doesn't have much) but the last couple days looks like he has been trying to get the word out to some journalists and also Surgeon General


https://mobile.twitter.com/johnfparnell
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Old 09-07-2020, 02:26 AM   #520
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Another excellent source https://mobile.twitter.com/tlowdon
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Old 09-07-2020, 07:41 AM   #521
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins View Post
Studies show otherwise.[/IMG]
Those numbers jive with what Mr. Rick stated (~2%+ fatality for 60+) for those with underlying conditions.

Needs to break out case numbers in each column to be meaningful. Treating all 4 as equal is misleading. There are going to be tons of 'with underlying conditions' for the >50 than without.

Also,

"This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should NOT be used to guide clinical practice."

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....05.20123489v1

Last edited by FearTheDonkey; 09-07-2020 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 09-07-2020, 07:53 AM   #522
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
I don't believe anything coming out of China atm, especially if it's related to the virus.
Hong Kong is not China, at least not government wise (yet).

It's kinda why they're been having violent protests...
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Old 09-07-2020, 11:48 PM   #523
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

does anyone know if atlantic city opened thier card rooms yet?
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Old 09-08-2020, 02:45 AM   #524
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

No.
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:54 AM   #525
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

We are starting to get callbacks, but no table games will be open. Interested on how that'll work with seniority. So far just non-union members but opening date is in a few weeks. I think we may be limited to 50 guests for a bit, and not sure if they have to book ahead. Don't even know if we'll be 24/7; we weren't when we went on strike before, and when I started we were 11am-2am.
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