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Old 05-05-2020, 01:42 PM   #301
amazinmets73
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re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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So, you've figured out a way to get it but not be a possible source of infection? Please elaborate, this could be important information?
When did I claim that?
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Old 05-05-2020, 02:07 PM   #302
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re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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When did I claim that?
Oh, so you just don't care if you spread to other people who might potentially not be able to be as indifferent to catching it?
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Old 05-05-2020, 04:29 PM   #303
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

"General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber"

When did Mr. T become a mod?
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Old 05-06-2020, 03:42 AM   #304
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Moderna and alike, need to start challenge studies in s couple weeks on the vaccine they have produced. Would shave months off of waiting game.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:00 AM   #305
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Moderna and alike, need to start challenge studies in s couple weeks on the vaccine they have produced. Would shave months off of waiting game.
I don't know the nuances of the different trials, but I have to say that I am terrified of the notion of fast tracking and possibly cutting corners on a brand new vaccine that will be administered to 200 million people.
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Old 05-06-2020, 02:08 PM   #306
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

A challenge study is people receiving the vaccine, and soon after being infected purposely by the virus to varrying degrees. Have seen some articles that thousands have volunteered although it has not been confirmed to be starting yet. It really is the only way to get back to normal asap.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:36 PM   #307
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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A challenge study is people receiving the vaccine, and soon after being infected purposely by the virus to varrying degrees. Have seen some articles that thousands have volunteered although it has not been confirmed to be starting yet. It really is the only way to get back to normal asap.
OK, so that is what I always heard of as the Phase 2 clinical trials. It seems a bit chancy to go forward with that before the phase 1 safety trials are complete, but I guess if people are willing to assume the risk...
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:56 PM   #308
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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OK, so that is what I always heard of as the Phase 2 clinical trials. It seems a bit chancy to go forward with that before the phase 1 safety trials are complete, but I guess if people are willing to assume the risk...
Challenge testing or trials are very different than typical phase II trials for vaccines. Normal phase II trials use people similar in age and health to those expected to receive the vaccine. But they are NOT intentionally infected with the illness. Challenge testing is much quicker. In the case of covid challenge testing could have results in weeks or maybe two months.

Challenge testing is not the only way to accelerate covid trials but it probably is the fastest. A trial could also focus on giving the candidate vaccine specifically to those at high risk of natural exposure. Like nurses, 1st responders, etc. this would be faster than giving to a more representative populace.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:30 PM   #309
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

They wouldn't give to frontline workers. They would have varying degrees of viral load inserted into group A etc. Usually age group for these challenge tirals is 20-45
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Old 05-07-2020, 05:41 AM   #310
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

I assume all that are advocating challenge testing have already volunteered to be part of those type of studies.
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Old 05-07-2020, 08:26 PM   #311
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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They wouldn't give to frontline workers. They would have varying degrees of viral load inserted into group A etc. Usually age group for these challenge tirals is 20-45
Challenge testing a vaccine for covid would be far outside the norms. Challenge testing is used almost exclusively for diseases with existing treatments and extremely little risk for mortality. Even though the death risk for covid would be low if they stuck with younger adults. It would not be low enough for a challenge trial.

Due to the exigent circumstances a challenge trial might be merited and get approved. But far from the norm.
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Old 05-09-2020, 08:44 PM   #312
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Some more very encouraging news https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/05/...us-antibodies/
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:00 PM   #313
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

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Challenge testing a vaccine for covid would be far outside the norms. Challenge testing is used almost exclusively for diseases with existing treatments and extremely little risk for mortality. Even though the death risk for covid would be low if they stuck with younger adults. It would not be low enough for a challenge trial.

Due to the exigent circumstances a challenge trial might be merited and get approved. But far from the norm.
speaking as a 61 year old with copd that recovered from covid i suggest that anyone who would be a part of this test is an imbecile. this thing causes your lungs to swell to the point that you cant inhale or exhale. no one i have seen has mentioned that one of the factors of knowing you have this junk is that your fingernails and lips turn blue. this is do the level of oxygen intake falling to a reading of around 79 on an oximeter. for anyone out there who knows about those things 79 is like right around comatose and then dead. god help anyone that wants to get infected with this
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:29 PM   #314
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

Well, some people might be interested in doing their part to try to help save tens of thousands of lives.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:14 AM   #315
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Re: General poker-related coronavirus discussion, argument, and jibber jabber

I seriously doubt they'd accept volunteers over 60, much less those with serious risk factors. A lot of people volunteering for challenge tests are likely doing so in order to get vaccinated ASAP.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:05 PM   #316
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Re: Post any public cardroom reopenings here (updated list in first post)

I love the casino that says: we're taking relatively few precautions, but please sign a liability waiver so that if you get COVID as a result of our lackluster containment efforts, you can't sue us for blatantly breaching the industry standard of care on reopening as safely as possible. It's not a good look.

I hope that card room gets ZERO business, because they clearly don't give a damn about anyone's health -- even less than those that are opening so prematurely to begin with.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:15 PM   #317
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Re: Post any public cardroom reopenings here (updated list in first post)

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I love the casino that says: we're taking relatively few precautions, but please sign a liability waiver so that if you get COVID as a result of our lackluster containment efforts, you can't sue us for blatantly breaching the industry standard of care on reopening as safely as possible. It's not a good look.

I hope that card room gets ZERO business, because they clearly don't give a damn about anyone's health -- even less than those that are opening so prematurely to begin with.
I see so many people with this attitude. If you are afraid, don't want to get sick, paranoid, nervous, whatever, DON'T F'IN PLAY.

I am so sick of this crap - stay inside your house and curl up in a ball please - come out when the vaccine is done.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:27 PM   #318
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Re: When and how will live poker resume? Is live poker dead for 2020?

What about people who want to play in safe conditions? The conditions currently in place there are blatantly unsafe. No masks? 7, 8-, or 9-max? No dividers? This casino is not even following industry standards when it comes to reopening. They are asking for a lawsuit, hence the waiver. What they are doing is irresponsibly reckless, beyond opening in the first place. A court should throw out that waiver on public policy grounds in a heartbeat. They know what they are doing is subpar and they think some flimsy piece of paper is going to save them in the end. That's the real gamble.

When a business opens its doors, it assumes liability for injury sustained by its guests resulting from its negligence. That hasn't suddenly changed because of this virus. You can't waive away gross negligence.

You wouldn't make your argument if instead of the risk of contracting COVID we were talking about the risk of robbery and the casino did not provide adequate security. (Or perhaps you would be the one saying, "bring your own gun!")

A business needs to take proper precautions to protect its patrons. If it doesn't, fine -- pay up or lose customers, go out of business. This casino is not doing what most others are doing. It's breaching its duty of care. Period.

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 05-22-2020 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:32 PM   #319
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Re: When and how will live poker resume? Is live poker dead for 2020?

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What about people who want to play in safe conditions? The conditions currently in place there are blatantly unsafe. No masks? 7, 8-, or 9-max? No dividers? This casino is not even following industry standards when it comes to reopening. They are asking for a lawsuit, hence the waiver. What they are doing is irresponsibly reckless, beyond opening in the first place. A court should throw out that waiver on public policy grounds in a heartbeat. They know what they are doing is subpar and they think some flimsy piece of paper is going to save them in the end. That's the real gamble.

When a business opens its doors, it assumes liability for injury sustained by its guests resulting from its negligence. That hasn't suddenly changed because of this virus.

You wouldn't make your argument if instead of the risk of contracting COVID we were talking about the risk of robbery and the casino did not provide adequate security. (Or perhaps you would be the one saying, "bring your own gun!")

A business needs to take proper precautions to protect its patrons. If it doesn't, fine -- pay up or lose customers, go out of business. This casino is not doing what most others are doing. It's breaching its duty of care. Period.
You must be a liberal. If a place wasn't safe and I felt the need to bring a gun, hmmmmm, let me see, I WOULDN'T GO THERE.

Have fun - stay at home please - for your own sanity.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:06 PM   #320
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Re: When and how will live poker resume? Is live poker dead for 2020?

Oh I looked into it and apparently in Florida you can waive away gross negligence. So if you or anyone else gets COVID playing poker there and sign that despicable waiver, don't expect a remedy in court.

And I believe in the 2nd amendment, civil liberties, etc. as much as the next guy who values his freedom. But I cannot stand callousness. This casino is being callous.

If that alone means I'm a liberal whose views must therefore be disregarded, lord help this country.

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 05-22-2020 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:12 PM   #321
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Re: When and how will live poker resume? Is live poker dead for 2020?

If you don't like the rules at a particular room, just play somewhere else. Jeez.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:18 PM   #322
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Re: When and how will live poker resume? Is live poker dead for 2020?

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Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
What about people who want to play in safe conditions? The conditions currently in place there are blatantly unsafe. No masks? 7, 8-, or 9-max? No dividers? This casino is not even following industry standards when it comes to reopening. They are asking for a lawsuit, hence the waiver. What they are doing is irresponsibly reckless, beyond opening in the first place. A court should throw out that waiver on public policy grounds in a heartbeat. They know what they are doing is subpar and they think some flimsy piece of paper is going to save them in the end. That's the real gamble.

When a business opens its doors, it assumes liability for injury sustained by its guests resulting from its negligence. That hasn't suddenly changed because of this virus. You can't waive away gross negligence.

You wouldn't make your argument if instead of the risk of contracting COVID we were talking about the risk of robbery and the casino did not provide adequate security. (Or perhaps you would be the one saying, "bring your own gun!")

A business needs to take proper precautions to protect its patrons. If it doesn't, fine -- pay up or lose customers, go out of business. This casino is not doing what most others are doing. It's breaching its duty of care. Period.
Because these "safe" conditions kill the entire experience and ruin poker. The risk that when you have a weakened immune system you could contract a virus that could kill you is a part of life. It was before this year with every flu season and its just as true now. Don't like it, start contributing to medical research on immune system diseases and aging. You can spend your life afraid of the virus, sit in your home all day waiting for a nonexistent vaccine, and stifle enjoyment of life. Or you can start living and stop being so afraid of death.

The problem is you can't just be afraid for yourself, you have to ruin it for everyone else with stupid policies like this.

Last edited by spino1i; 05-22-2020 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:31 PM   #323
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Re: When and how will live poker resume? Is live poker dead for 2020?

This wasn't my policy, it was that of every other casino opening in Florida. This particular casino decided to be the lone wolf. So in my mind, it can eat berries.

There's no such thing as business as usual for the foreseeable future. There will be uncomfortable changes on many levels involving public life until we get this thing under control, hopefully over the next several months. That's evident by the precautions sensibly taken by most Florida casinos. Things just are not the same, for good reason. People are dying in record numbers; this pandemic is an international crisis. The U.S. military is on lock-down. Even the President of the United States is taking medicine for this thing. He's not even denying the threat it poses to him.

It's not a matter of whether I, personally, as a 32-year-old white dude in excellent physical health fears this virus (I don't; in fact, I think I had it in March), but rather about the risk it poses to hundreds of thousands if not millions of high-risk individuals. I don't think we should just write them off entirely so we can live the near-future unencumbered by a little hardship. After all, hardship is much better than death.

So yes, I am proudly willing to be temporarily inconvenienced, economically and socially, to save many lives, just like hundreds of thousands were during World War II when the country put everything on hold to support our troops fighting the Axis of Evil. Meanwhile, you seem concerned about your precious "poker experience." What a selfish attitude you have. Don't you see how little you care about other people if you care more about whether you enjoy poker than whether countless strangers die?

Neither of you convincingly addressed my issue head-on anyway, instead mainly resorting to ad hominem attacks, saying I'm just another "liberal" who fears death and cannot enjoy life, so I will let it go at this point since we're talking past each other like two (three?) ships passing in the night.

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 05-22-2020 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:40 PM   #324
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Re: Post any public cardroom reopenings here (updated list in first post)

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I see so many people with this attitude. If you are afraid, don't want to get sick, paranoid, nervous, whatever, DON'T F'IN PLAY.

I am so sick of this crap - stay inside your house and curl up in a ball please - come out when the vaccine is done.
I see so many people with this attitude. If you want to be reckless and irresponsible, don't do it in a way that 1) consumes constrained resources, and 2) exposes others to risk.

I am so sick of this crap - people need to look beyond themselves and realize that we are facing a generational health crisis. Look beyond your own short term personal wants for a change.
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:11 PM   #325
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Re: When and how will live poker resume? Is live poker dead for 2020?

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This wasn't my policy, it was that of every other casino opening in Florida. This particular casino decided to be the lone wolf. So in my mind, it can eat berries.

There's no such thing as business as usual for the foreseeable future. There will be uncomfortable changes on many levels involving public life until we get this thing under control, hopefully over the next several months. That's evident by the precautions sensibly taken by most Florida casinos. Things just are not the same, for good reason. People are dying in record numbers; this pandemic is an international crisis. The U.S. military is on lock-down. Even the President of the United States is taking medicine for this thing. He's not even denying the threat it poses to him.

It's not a matter of whether I, personally, as a 32-year-old white dude in excellent physical health fears this virus (I don't; in fact, I think I had it in March), but rather about the risk it poses to hundreds of thousands if not millions of high-risk individuals. I don't think we should just write them off entirely so we can live the near-future unencumbered by a little hardship. After all, hardship is much better than death.

So yes, I am proudly willing to be temporarily inconvenienced, economically and socially, to save many lives, just like hundreds of thousands were during World War II when the country put everything on hold to support our troops fighting the Axis of Evil. Meanwhile, you seem concerned about your precious "poker experience." What a selfish attitude you have. Don't you see how little you care about other people if you care more about whether you enjoy poker than whether countless strangers die?

Neither of you convincingly addressed my issue head-on anyway, instead mainly resorting to ad hominem attacks, saying I'm just another "liberal" who fears death and cannot enjoy life, so I will let it go at this point since we're talking past each other like two (three?) ships passing in the night.
You misunderstand me, I am not merely concerned about this because of my potential "poker experience". The implications of the quarantine order are much more far reaching than that. It has shut down most businesses and any major social activities. It has made finding a job impossible and put a decent percentage of people out of work. It is a sign of gross government overreach and a violation of freedom.

People are dying in record numbers? Really? 2.5 million people die every year in the United States. Most of them are old and die because of disease. Coronavirus added 100,000 to that number. Most of those people that die from it are old too. Maybe by the end of the year it will be at 250,000. So its a 10% increase in death for one year, and in return we sacrifice the quality of life for virtually everyone and permanently destroy the economy. And how many of those people that you "save" with social distancing would end up dying later on down the line from coronavirus anyway? Probably most of them. What about people who are dying of other medical conditions that cant use medical services now? Screw them, coronavirus is more important. Yes, seems like quite a good idea doesn't it?

If youre so worried about death from disease, how much money have you contributed to medical research over your life? A significant amount I hope given how much value you place on stopping it..

Last edited by spino1i; 05-22-2020 at 07:26 PM.
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