Player facing a bet, says raise and puts out the exact amount of the original bet beyond the betting line.

Pulls his hands back, then thinks and puts out a lot more.

Should this be a forced min-raise or is he allowed to raise to whatever amount?

Pretty standard way to raise

Withthe caveat that rooms can do what they want, the usual rule is that he can raise whatever he wants. If he had put out anything than the exact raise amount, it would have to be a minraise (or the amount he put out if greater than aminraise).

He is allowed to raise to whatever amount.

I wouldn't call it standard, but there are a few players who like to raise this way.

He can now raise anything he wants as long as the raising chips come in one motion or he announces the amount.

Here is the TDA rule:
Personally, I find method C of raising stupid and error prone. I would be totally fine in eliminating it as a raising method. Sadly, no one has elected me king yet.

I used to see this more way back when, but it's still common enough that I've never seen a dealer or player object. If you think about it logically, there's no advantage gained by doing it this way. I actually like it because it answers the question "how much on top" before it's asked.

The 'hands moving in a continuous motion' concept went out the window a decade (or more?) ago. If he didn't say raise it'd be hard to argue anything other than a call, but I think he can raise whatever he wants.

I was not involved in the hand and I've never seen that before so hence the question. I agree if I were poker king I'd remove that action. You still have the ability to announce raise then think and move your chips in if you're so inclined.

I would be perfectly fine if that rule was removed but don’t think it hurts anyone to allow people to put in the call first after announcing raise.

The thing you see more frequently is people putting the call amount together behind the line, add the raise and then move all chips forward in one motion. Probably helps them visualize it.

Some people like to see the original bet pulled into the middle and only the raise out in front of them. It also helps some people who failed to keep track of the pot size to see what's in the pot and what the raise amount is. I think this really only works when the person raising is the last one to act on the original bet (i.e. small blind opens on the flop, gets two callers, and the button is the one raising). Head's up is an obvious time where this works.

For what it's worth, this was one of the biggest tells I've ever found on a player. In my home casino, there was a regular who was a fairly good, but sometimes overly aggressive player. His aggression worked on timid 1-2 players, but not so much in bigger games so he'd grind away playing 1-2. After about 3 months playing with him 2 to 4 times a week, I noticed that when he raised the way you described (putting in the original bet amount separate from his raise amount), he always had a monster or the nuts (and 99% of time the best hand). Then sometimes he would raise by just putting in the total he wanted to bet, not the original amount and the raise separate. In these instances, he was almost always on some sort of draw....sometimes a big draw like top pair with the nut flush draw, but it was never top set or the nut straight in these instances.

I spent almost a year using this to my advantage before I think he figured it out or a friend told him. Of course, any time I used it to my advantage he was still in a decent equity position, but it allowed me to play certain hands differently because it was easier to put him on a hand range

I wonder if this comes from a limit background, where you want to keep bets separate so you know how many there have been? Idk, someone who plays more limit than I should weigh in on that.

No, you keep bets separate in limit for countability / speeding the game up, and because there is a cap on raises so you need to know how many it's been.

This is just to aid in visualizing how much is in the pot so you can calculate an appropriate (pot) sized raise.

Tend to agree with Gould21 ... This is usually a Player (2 motion action of call then raise) with a monster or trying to get a read on the rest of the table when trying to determine a raise size. It's also a spot for some small angles if Players have a tendency to fold before action is complete or give off physical tells.

We get a little whining in PLO when a Player insta-mucks when 'Pot' is announced, but it's really not premature since 'Pot' actually has a numerical value and thus action has moved onto the next Player.

To answer the OP ... This Player can raise any amount he wants as long as he verbalizes or put it out there in one motion. GL

I thought I read that the TDA summit had this as one of their multiple topics. I may be wrong, but IIRC, there was a push to forcing a min-raise in this type of action, but there wasn't enough consensus to make it carry.

Every poker scene in movies used to have this as the standard action.

I see your wedding ring and raise you my car keys.

I saw it on HSP (or some similar show) and thought it was weird. Then a no-longer-regular player in our games adopted the method. I knew what he was doing (counting pot prior to raise, looking at other players actions/reactions) and for him it had the added benefit of confusing the more novice players.

When there has been a 'non standard' (generally smaller than expected), it's easier to put in a proper raise (instead of 3x). At least IMHO.

Generally, I'll cut out calling chips next to my stack, then add my raise on top and push them into the betting area.


Re: see, then raise... only two players use that, the newest newbies and the guy that just wants to call AND project strength. In both cases, in home games, I remind them of the rules, that it should be a call and if action hasn't moved forward MAY ask for clarification and allow the raise. But that's home game, and rare.