I think your logic here is terrible. Check raising with this is just plain awful. Our hand is a nice bluff catcher. If we CR the flop we are basically over repping our hand and tyrning it into a bluff and using 1970's omc logic to justify our nonsencial play. This hand is perfect for a triple check call. Or in the right situation a triple lead line maybe. Against some opponents on some runouts we find a fold....

K3 is not worth 3 streets of value on KKJ2x where it doesn't improve. It's hard for me to imagine even a microstakes grinder calling 3 streets with AJ here.

I didn't say that this was the optimum play against all or random opponents.
But against the right OMC, especially if they think I'm super-tight (both as in OP), I think it's a pretty good play.
"1970's omc logic" might be exactly right for the right OMC....

I had this experience last night. 2/5 game, very loose/splashy/gambly in general. V in question is usually very tight and doesn't get out of line.

I open to $30 with KQ 2 callers

Flop comes queen high, one . I bet $75, V x/c quickly.

Turn is a . I bet $165, V x/c quickly.

River is a Q (board Q-8c-4-9c-Q). V shoves for $400. I don't really think V has it in him to bluff this river. He really can only have A-Q to make this play. I think he checks 98% of his range (including J-10 because the board paired) and jams with AQ (1%) and pure bluffs (the other 1%). I tanked and folded face up.

He quickly mucked (which made me think he was actually bluffing) and claimed he had me out-kicked. Then another player at the table who was not involved in the hand quietly told me that they had folded the case Q. I don't think he actually heard that conversation as he is hard of hearing but he maintained that had AQ even when he left for the night and cashed out. But even without that information, I feel like he lied to me even then. He tried a little too hard to look me right in the eye when he said it.

So I got bluffed off three queens in a pretty big pot and most of the table knows it.

Later that night, two other players ran big bluffs against me later (including a check-raise all-in on the river that made no sense) and I snapped them both off.

So I think that it actually yielded positive results. I also tend to be a bit of a station on the river so I don't mind when people bluff me. For me, it worked out but I rarely ever show my cards unless I think I have a winner.

I mean this isn't a strategy forum but if you were getting 2:1 to call and had a 1:1 chance of winning that was a horrible fold.

Showing in this case only "worked" because you made a strategic mistake - one that cost you by your own estimates about $280 (half of the post-turn pot). If you're a $40/hr winner you sacrificed 7 hours of EV by folding; how much EV did you really get back?

Where did you get the idea that I had a 1:1 chance of winning?

Edit: Ok I think I see where you got that from. I did not mean to imply that 50% of his shoving range was AQ and the other 50% a bluff, although I did say that. I should have worded that differently.

What I meant to say was, 98% of his shoving range on the river is AQ. It's just so rare to catch someone in a bluff with this line.

This was my second thought. My first thought was why would you think he would be afraid to bet a straight but would definitely bet trips for value?

Maybe I should have had more coffee this morning.

How come he would check JT and shove AQ when JT > AQ on that board?

showing was the bad part. as the bad players will fear your bets more and against them you wont be bluffing much. so your net results will be costly and last a long time.

to say it again it never ,ever ever, is good for the game or good for you to show a laydown of a big looking hand.

Generally speaking, don’t show. But here’s the thing: when you do show, you know what you showed, so you can act accordingly in future hands.

At all times, you should be aware of what your image is. Here you’ve created an image just the same as you do when not showing. Just be aware of what it is.

(Aside: this is a great example of why a hand like k2 is not even worth the obligatory $2 99 percent of players would throw in to see a flop. But if you play correctly and don’t throw in the $2, that also puts a neon “nit” sign over your head.)

This assumes you are playing against people who are actually paying attention. And if they are paying too much attention, they will use it against you, but I don't think that happens often at LLNL.

I just never show unless I have to or unless I think I have the best hand. (Cannot stand people who wait for the other guy to show when they think/know they have it unless there is a very good reason, which is rare.)

Agree. Part of being aware of your own image is knowing which opponents are even paying attention.

Fun short session yesterday. 7 handed and the players were definitely paying attention since I was new to the room. One guy quipped that "We show in this room." when I bet pot on the Turn in an early hand and took it down. I said "Just remember that I always have a Queen" .. showing him a Q. In an amazing run I was able to show a Q in 7 of my next 10 hands 'where I could show' and the whole table bought into it.

Short time later it was 6-ways on a QQT Flop and I had 44 OTB. Checked around and I bet 1/3 pot. Everyone folded with the last guy showing an AT and saying "You and your Queens"! (Yes, pat on back) This was true live poker. Know your image, know your table and pay attention to spots that come up and react to them without drawing attention to it by acting natural.

Up $480 in two hours, my wife's Granny had completed her slot fun and walked up wanting to leave. I said "normally I would stay and dump all this back to you guys but Granny is here to save me" and I left. GL

The thing is you made basic errors in the play of the hand. How can that be expressed?

1. Come right out and rudely say you are both a fish (terrible preflop call, folding strong hand face-up,) and a nit (questionable fold of trips.) Or,
2. Try to convey the same message without being mean or rude about it and be accused of being passive-aggressive and condescending.

Hi Genio,

1.) Don't fold pre (Are the fold pre comments serious? He is getting 6.5 to 1 with a suited a King).

2.) Don't fold turn. Assuming old men generally have tighter ranges is fine and probably just common sense. But folding trips to a 2/3 pot bet OTT because an old man can only have monsters is taking this way to far. Its a 1/3 game for God sake. Making big laydowns is not the way to win at small stakes casino cash games. He could be overvalueing a jack, or think he is betting for protectionn, have a SD, or just some random spazz. I'm not loving my hand in your spot but also never considering a fold at this point.

3.) Folding is bad but showing the fold is the worst thing you could do IMO. When players fold strong hands face up, I think they are mostly doing it to show off that they have the skills/discipline to make a tough laydown. It is done more for ego than it is to gain any strategic edge.

In reality, they are just inviting bluffs, which will typically make you opponents more unpredictable and tougher to play against. If I saw someone make that laydown I'd make a mental note and target them with a bluff anytime I felt I could rep a strong hand.

Pretty easy, if youre going to show, show the bluffs dont show the strong folds. Most players call too often, and showing bluffs doesnt cause them to adjust properly (by raising and trapping) but instead by just calling down a lot. If you fold a really strong hand, itll encourage them to bluff you, which most players dont do even close to often enough.

1-3 NLH in a casino. Most players are not paying enough attention for any of this to matter much regardless if you show or not. OTOH there are some/few better players who do watch your action and adjust. You simply can't go wrong by just not showing your hole cards unless required. This way you won't waste effort on players who are not concentrating and avoid giving away information to the few who are, especially when you have not spotted these types.

Never show folds. It tells other players exactly what you will fold and what you will call.

Occasionally show big hands that everyone folds to and occasionally show bluffs.

My take on the fundamental question of this thread:

(1) If you play recreationally and showing your hole cards is fun to you in certain spots after the conclusion of the hand, go for it. There's no etiquette issues involved unless you berate them or something when you show

(2) If you play to maximize your winrate, then what you have to realize is that by showing hole cards you're starting a leveling war. Say you just showed a crazy out of line bluff. So your opponents think you're a maniac. But you know they think you're a maniac, so you start value betting wider and bluffing less. But they might know that you know they think you're a maniac, so they start calling tighter. This loop can go on forever.

Its fine if that kind of psychological war is where you think you can gain an edge, but it can backfire on you bigtime if you get it wrong / get outleveled. On the other hand, just playing solid poker vs. less fundamentally sound opponents will net you a positive winrate in the longrun. You can still make reads/adjustments in this case, but based on actual frequencies/sizings/actions/showdowns you see rather than based on a leveling war.