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Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands

04-15-2024 , 10:25 AM
Although I have a full-time job (and have no desire to ever play professionally), I am winning recreational grinder, who studies and works on his game. I play a mix of live and online, but in recent months it has primarily been live.

I primarily play 2/5, but occasionally 1/2 when I am tired or want to pay more attention to a sporting event while playing. I try to play atleast 1 session per weekend of 6-8 hours.

I am relatively social and chatty, and always try to create a positive atmosphere at the table, because it makes the game more enjoyable, and generally leads to better action from the fish/whales. I also try to have good poker etiquette, particularly toward losing players.

This extends to showdowns, where I try to have good etiquette as much as possible. I avoid playing showdown standoff games, and very frequently show quickly, and first (even when technically I am not first to act at showdown) especially against losing players. I always try to avoid putting losing players in uncomfortable spots at showdown. I try to avoid the appearance of even a slight slowroll. Even against regs I try to be prompt if caught bluffing, and let them know I have air so they can show and I can muck.

However, after a couple hands I played this weekend, I am wondering if my fastrolling can be seen as a dick move.

I wanted to watch The Masters relatively attentively, so I was playing 1/2. The game was pretty good, with a couple bigger action players, one whom I had become pretty friendly talking about golf with.

I had two big hands where I won big pots (for 1/2).

One was a huge cooler against the friendly whale, where I 3b TT in BB vs his BU open. Flop was T62r, I xc'ed $100 otf, then he jammed the offsuit 5 turn.

As always, to avoid slow rolling, I snap called his turn jam and insta showed my TT. He looked super shocked and then turned over 66 a few seconds later.

He was obviously displeased about the cooler, but nonetheless was jovial about it and we continued being friendly and chatting afterwards.

A second, similar hand happened later against a different whale where I turned the nutflush (tbf on a paired board) and check-snapcalled his turn jam and snap showed, beating his QQ with the FD. He had boat outs but I held.

After the second hand, I kinda felt like maybe the speed at which I snapcalled and showed could be perceived as me "shoving the nuts into their face". I am trying to avoid slow rolling but now wondering if the speed of my action can be seen as "haha, you went all-in and instantly got shown the (relative) nuts, get ****ed".

This is not what I am trying to do, but rather just avoiding slow rolling. Would it be better for me to just call and then indicate my hand verbally before turning it over 2-3 seconds later?

FWIW, I don't only do this with the nuts, but any strong hand that is a snapcall.

A while back in my old room I did the same thing otr on a paired board with the nutflush against a mega spewy whale, only to get shown his boat. He did proceed to needle me a bit about my snapcall and show, he was all like "you thought you had got it all and stacked me, huh?" which I didn't mind, but I wonder if in hindsight him needling me is because he thought my snap show was poor etiquette.

Thoughts?

Last edited by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS; 04-15-2024 at 10:32 AM.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 12:08 PM
You are doing it fine, in fact you're doing it great and maybe near perfectly.

Perhaps don't snap show, but show pretty quickly. Maybe give a little "I think I got you" or "I'm in pretty good shape" speech first with some "sorry bro" mixed in if you have the nuts or near nuts.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 12:57 PM
There are very few people who turn their hands over in cash games when they go all in and are called HU (or if all other players are all in after calling).

I am one of them (partly because I play mostly tournaments and partly because I will have to turn over my hand anyway after the river is dealt so I do it immediately).

What you are doing is OK. Well better than OK.

The thing I would look at is why you are worried that people might not like you. If you have self esteem issues that would be a good thing to work on (I spent 17 years in therapy to get past them).

If you have anxiety in general (I do all the time) it would be good to look at it and learn how to let it go.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 02:50 PM
If you're celebrating or trash talking while you turn over your cards then maybe you're pissing people off, but simply calling or turning over your cards quickly is good.

As a dealer one thing I see too often is people get so excited to show their hand that they don't pause a second to make sure the hand is actually over. They forget about a 3rd player, don't realize their opponent actually raised, they think they're all in but there are actually chips behind, or in some other way they lose out on value. Occasionally they slam their cards down so hard they go flying into the muck or off the table and they wind up losing the pot.

I would encourage you to slow down slightly, not for etiquette reasons but just to make sure it's really time to show.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 04:12 PM
I'm no Master of Etiquette for sure, but the way you described you play the nuts is exactly the way i do it.

Never say you're sorry though. My go to is "that hand played itself" or something similar.

You're fine. Good luck.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 06:29 PM
You're not. Good advice above.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick
There are very few people who turn their hands over in cash games when they go all in and are called HU (or if all other players are all in after calling).

I am one of them (partly because I play mostly tournaments and partly because I will have to turn over my hand anyway after the river is dealt so I do it immediately).

What you are doing is OK. Well better than OK.

The thing I would look at is why you are worried that people might not like you. If you have self esteem issues that would be a good thing to work on (I spent 17 years in therapy to get past them).

If you have anxiety in general (I do all the time) it would be good to look at it and learn how to let it go.
I have no anxiety, and am not worried about being liked. I generally have no issue "making friends" so to speak at the poker table. Though occasionally when I am card dead, whales will make some comments about me being nitty.

I am more concerned that I could be making losing players feel like they are getting clowned on by snap putting the goods in their face.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reducto
If you're celebrating or trash talking while you turn over your cards then maybe you're pissing people off, but simply calling or turning over your cards quickly is good.

As a dealer one thing I see too often is people get so excited to show their hand that they don't pause a second to make sure the hand is actually over. They forget about a 3rd player, don't realize their opponent actually raised, they think they're all in but there are actually chips behind, or in some other way they lose out on value. Occasionally they slam their cards down so hard they go flying into the muck or off the table and they wind up losing the pot.

I would encourage you to slow down slightly, not for etiquette reasons but just to make sure it's really time to show.
No, I usually just say call and flip over. No celebration or trash talk or anything.

I don't even verbally state my hand strength or give a "I think I got this one", but I would think either of those types of statements are fine.

But I appreciate your advice about slowing down for other reasons and think you're probably right.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 09:45 PM
I missed the part about you are calling and then snap turning over your hand.

From a strategic point of view it is important to see what your opponent has so you can understand their range and betting style.

I only turn my hand over when I am the one who went all in and I have been called. If my opponent has turned their hand over before the river I will often turn my hand over if I am ahead especially when they are drawing dead (or extremely thin like set over set).

My opponents typically don't turn their hands over until showdown so I never turn my hand over even if its the nuts until after they have turned over their hands. It is possible on the river that they will discard their hand and in some rooms I will be allowed to win the pot without showing my hand. At Foxwoods I believe they still have the rule where the winning hand must be shown.

More importantly though if I have the current nuts and then I am outdrawn and I don't have to turn over my hand because I have lost, then I won't turn over my hand because it will be less info for everyone at the table.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-15-2024 , 11:52 PM
OP you are definitely 100% overthinking it. No matter what there will be some player that will criticize you for some benign reason because a lot of humans suck and then especially a lot of card players suck.

I would say quickly and calmly turn your hand over unless you are up against a total slowroller. I also find that maybe announcing your hand while turning it over can feel less showboaty in a way, because you’re not forcing them to read your hand and also you can turn it over as deliberately as possible.

That being said anyone that would give you crap for how you currently do things is just being a jerk.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-16-2024 , 12:14 AM
Your fastrolling is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS
I avoid playing showdown standoff games
That does not match up with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS
I try to be prompt if caught bluffing, and let them know I have air so they can show and I can muck.
Stop with the showdown standoff game and show or muck when caught bluffing.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-16-2024 , 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick
I missed the part about you are calling and then snap turning over your hand.

From a strategic point of view it is important to see what your opponent has so you can understand their range and betting style.

I only turn my hand over when I am the one who went all in and I have been called. If my opponent has turned their hand over before the river I will often turn my hand over if I am ahead especially when they are drawing dead (or extremely thin like set over set).

My opponents typically don't turn their hands over until showdown so I never turn my hand over even if its the nuts until after they have turned over their hands. It is possible on the river that they will discard their hand and in some rooms I will be allowed to win the pot without showing my hand. At Foxwoods I believe they still have the rule where the winning hand must be shown.

More importantly though if I have the current nuts and then I am outdrawn and I don't have to turn over my hand because I have lost, then I won't turn over my hand because it will be less info for everyone at the table.
Agree, just necessary info given must be the guideline. If it's you to show, then show. Just calmly turn up your cards, so be it any type of hand. Both overly snap and slow can be intimidating. Have seen some use supposedly tilt inducing techniques, showing one card etc, will not take that into my palette. At my casino all-ins and showdown require both to show, so I just turn up the cards, will have to do that anyway. Good thing dealer always tells when both have to show. When not required to show, it's always just muck if losing. Holdem has just two hole cards, I should be able to see what I have.

Last edited by plaaynde; 04-16-2024 at 02:09 AM.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-18-2024 , 11:16 AM
I think there's a small, but key difference between turning your hand over without undue delay and what you term "fastrolling".

I'd just suggest taking a beat/a second/two seconds and then turn your hand over normally.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-19-2024 , 09:11 AM
It sounds like you're doing just fine and very good to have at a table.

The only thing I picked up on in a glance was the 'snap call' and show with the paired Board. This may send a signal to a Reg Player that you really don't give them a 2nd thought in this spot (being the paired Board). While it could be taken as an indication of your style of play, it also could be a small disrespect by snapping with a hand that could be drawing dead.

These types of spots are variable for sure. I do like the added verbal cushions .. "I'm running hot today", "Heat Check" or "Thought I might be giving some back there"

When you're caught bluffing a simple "I'm pretty weak here" is another verbal cushion if you're slow to table your holding.

If I'm very confident that I'm going to win the hand I will show pretty quickly .. and this has very little to do with how nutted I am to the Board either way. But I will adjust my tabling speed based on the session dynamic, both for myself and the rest of the table. GL
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-19-2024 , 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
It sounds like you're doing just fine and very good to have at a table.

The only thing I picked up on in a glance was the 'snap call' and show with the paired Board. This may send a signal to a Reg Player that you really don't give them a 2nd thought in this spot (being the paired Board). While it could be taken as an indication of your style of play, it also could be a small disrespect by snapping with a hand that could be drawing dead.

These types of spots are variable for sure. I do like the added verbal cushions .. "I'm running hot today", "Heat Check" or "Thought I might be giving some back there"

When you're caught bluffing a simple "I'm pretty weak here" is another verbal cushion if you're slow to table your holding.

If I'm very confident that I'm going to win the hand I will show pretty quickly .. and this has very little to do with how nutted I am to the Board either way. But I will adjust my tabling speed based on the session dynamic, both for myself and the rest of the table. GL
This makes a lot of sense, will adjust.

I think going forward I will slow down, confirm the action is over in 2-5s, then call, state my hadn strength and table. That'll only take 5-10 more seconds overall.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
04-26-2024 , 12:49 PM
Snapshowing is better than slowrolling. I basically always flip my hand -- if they don't like it, start slowrolling them
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
05-10-2024 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS
Although I have a full-time job (and have no desire to ever play professionally), I am winning recreational grinder, who studies and works on his game. I play a mix of live and online, but in recent months it has primarily been live.

I primarily play 2/5, but occasionally 1/2 when I am tired or want to pay more attention to a sporting event while playing. I try to play atleast 1 session per weekend of 6-8 hours.

I am relatively social and chatty, and always try to create a positive atmosphere at the table, because it makes the game more enjoyable, and generally leads to better action from the fish/whales. I also try to have good poker etiquette, particularly toward losing players.

This extends to showdowns, where I try to have good etiquette as much as possible. I avoid playing showdown standoff games, and very frequently show quickly, and first (even when technically I am not first to act at showdown) especially against losing players. I always try to avoid putting losing players in uncomfortable spots at showdown. I try to avoid the appearance of even a slight slowroll. Even against regs I try to be prompt if caught bluffing, and let them know I have air so they can show and I can muck.

However, after a couple hands I played this weekend, I am wondering if my fastrolling can be seen as a dick move.

I wanted to watch The Masters relatively attentively, so I was playing 1/2. The game was pretty good, with a couple bigger action players, one whom I had become pretty friendly talking about golf with.

I had two big hands where I won big pots (for 1/2).

One was a huge cooler against the friendly whale, where I 3b TT in BB vs his BU open. Flop was T62r, I xc'ed $100 otf, then he jammed the offsuit 5 turn.

As always, to avoid slow rolling, I snap called his turn jam and insta showed my TT. He looked super shocked and then turned over 66 a few seconds later.

He was obviously displeased about the cooler, but nonetheless was jovial about it and we continued being friendly and chatting afterwards.

A second, similar hand happened later against a different whale where I turned the nutflush (tbf on a paired board) and check-snapcalled his turn jam and snap showed, beating his QQ with the FD. He had boat outs but I held.

After the second hand, I kinda felt like maybe the speed at which I snapcalled and showed could be perceived as me "shoving the nuts into their face". I am trying to avoid slow rolling but now wondering if the speed of my action can be seen as "haha, you went all-in and instantly got shown the (relative) nuts, get ****ed".

This is not what I am trying to do, but rather just avoiding slow rolling. Would it be better for me to just call and then indicate my hand verbally before turning it over 2-3 seconds later?

FWIW, I don't only do this with the nuts, but any strong hand that is a snapcall.

A while back in my old room I did the same thing otr on a paired board with the nutflush against a mega spewy whale, only to get shown his boat. He did proceed to needle me a bit about my snapcall and show, he was all like "you thought you had got it all and stacked me, huh?" which I didn't mind, but I wonder if in hindsight him needling me is because he thought my snap show was poor etiquette.

Thoughts?
Maybe don’t fast roll unless you have the nuts. If you think you probably have the best hand but not the stone nuts do a medium fast roll. But most of all stop ****ing worrying about what other people think unless you’re playing a home game where you won’t get invited back if someone doesn’t like you. Just don’t be a dick and don’t worry about it, someone’s gonna be offended no matter what you do. If they wanna be offended they’ll even be butthurt that you are breathing, taking up a seat and beating them out of a hand
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote
05-27-2024 , 05:50 PM
I tend to do the same. If there is no more action and I am nutted why wait to show. If they could boat up then they know where they stand. For me,no reason to withhold information if its going to be out there anyway.
Feeling like maybe I am a dick for fastrolling nutted hands Quote

      
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