Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Casino & Cardroom Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-31-2009, 02:06 AM   #1
BartHanson
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 754
Ethics of using phone for calculations

I was in a rare spot the other day where in holdem I wasn't sure what my approximate equity was against my villain's range. He open shoved into five people after a someone else pf raised and I was last to act. I was 100% sure he was on a draw on a 9c 8c 2s board (there is a lot of history). I had 7h 6h and was getting about 2.25 from the pot.

Is it unethical for me to use my blackberry and fire up twodimes.net or pokerstove in this given situation? It is perfectly legal to text and use your phone during a hand at the Commerce. What is my play here?

Should using PDAs be against the rules while in the midst of a hand?

What about using a phone's calculator feature to figure out pot size?
BartHanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 02:42 AM   #2
coltrainSTL
banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 77
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

If everyone did this the game would move soooo damn slow.
technically, if you didn't break the rules of the cardroom, well...
coltrainSTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 02:45 AM   #3
pfapfap
HP JoY 2011 wienerbucket
 
pfapfap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 22,539
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Cell phones are not allowed in most places, and I'm sure this trend will grow. Learn math, it's a part of the game.
pfapfap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 03:39 AM   #4
BartHanson
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 754
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
Cell phones are not allowed in most places, and I'm sure this trend will grow. Learn math, it's a part of the game.
Your right pfapfap I have no idea about math
BartHanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 08:18 AM   #5
Obfuscation
adept
 
Obfuscation's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Outside it's America
Posts: 943
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
Cell phones are not allowed in most places, and I'm sure this trend will grow. Learn math, it's a part of the game.
Holy condescending.

In any event... OP, whatever the rules are, if you did this most people would rightly want to choke you for slowing up the game.

I have a blackberry and yanking up a website, punching in numbers and scrolling around would take you at least 4-5 minutes. Ugh.
Obfuscation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 08:24 AM   #6
pfapfap
HP JoY 2011 wienerbucket
 
pfapfap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ...
Posts: 22,539
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Heh, sorry, didn't mean to be so harsh. But do chess players get to use computerized help? It's up to you and you alone to play the game. One player to a hand.
pfapfap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 09:03 AM   #7
BK1248
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: roslindale
Posts: 3,701
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

if i ever see someone calculate odds on their phone id die laughing, i would literally piss my pants, the sunglasses are funny enuff
BK1248 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 09:09 AM   #8
maxz
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 228
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
Heh, sorry, didn't mean to be so harsh. But do chess players get to use computerized help? It's up to you and you alone to play the game. One player to a hand.
What if you have a brain implant which helps you do the math? Is that illegal too?
maxz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 09:11 AM   #9
p566
veteran
 
p566's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: too far from the casinos
Posts: 3,345
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxz View Post
What if you have a brain implant which helps you do the math? Is that illegal too?
fyp - couldn't resist
p566 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 10:08 AM   #10
Tom1975
arbitrary and capricious
 
Tom1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: two can play at this game
Posts: 17,723
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by BK1248 View Post
if i ever see someone calculate odds on their phone id die laughing, i would literally piss my pants, the sunglasses are funny enuff
This.
Tom1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 11:02 AM   #11
nineinchal
banned
 
nineinchal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: I has a get out of a KITN free card
Posts: 5,616
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Can I use my laptop? It has pokerstove...
nineinchal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 11:03 AM   #12
nineinchal
banned
 
nineinchal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: I has a get out of a KITN free card
Posts: 5,616
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

The real problem is, if I go to my calculator, my opponent knows I have a marginal decision...
nineinchal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 12:56 PM   #13
fisherfolk
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 403
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

To the core question of is it ethical. If its not against the rules and everyone else at the table can do the same thing, then I cant see anything unethical. Silly and bad for poker, but not unethical.
fisherfolk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 01:01 PM   #14
ahnuld
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ahnuld's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: buy side
Posts: 17,314
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

of course this is unethical. Like someone else said, learn the math. 13 outs is roughly 13/45 + ((32/45)(13/44))

(assuming he doesnt redraw out on us, hence almost)
ahnuld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 01:01 PM   #15
Dirdal
grinder
 
Dirdal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: In the middle of Nowhere
Posts: 483
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by nineinchal View Post
Can I use my laptop? It has pokerstove...
Well that doesn't really matter in OPs situation, does it?
Dirdal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 02:13 PM   #16
ORAG
grinder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 509
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnuld View Post
of course this is unethical. Like someone else said, learn the math. 13 outs is roughly 13/45 + ((32/45)(13/44))

(assuming he doesnt redraw out on us, hence almost)
Uh, obviously Bart had a more difficult decision than just knowing his outs, he was trying to put the guy on a range and find his equity against this range.

I find it humorous that most of the posters act as if the person asking the questions is some NVG-tard.

Bart, I think it is a bad idea and could be very bad for the game as iPhone apps could make this much easier and more common.
ORAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 03:38 PM   #17
xxrod17xx
Pooh-Bah
 
xxrod17xx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seasoning Micro Steaks
Posts: 3,763
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

I dont think it is a question of ethics, its just against the rules to use of phone at the table especially when involved in a hand.

Bart, put em on a range and learn dem maths.

Edit: Oh and thanks for L@TB, it brought me to 2p2.
xxrod17xx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 04:48 PM   #18
Jimmy Limit
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 384
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Maybe they have a basic strategy card for the OP like the ones they have for BJ.
Jimmy Limit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 05:12 PM   #19
DesertCat
I am a Regulator
 
DesertCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Arizona
Posts: 13,526
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
I was in a rare spot the other day where in holdem I wasn't sure what my approximate equity was against my villain's range. He open shoved into five people after a someone else pf raised and I was last to act. I was 100% sure he was on a draw on a 9c 8c 2s board (there is a lot of history). I had 7h 6h and was getting about 2.25 from the pot.

Is it unethical for me to use my blackberry and fire up twodimes.net or pokerstove in this given situation? It is perfectly legal to text and use your phone during a hand at the Commerce. What is my play here?

Should using PDAs be against the rules while in the midst of a hand?

What about using a phone's calculator feature to figure out pot size?
Bart,

first of all, blackberrys suck. Get an IPhone. Then you could get PokerCruncher which will do hand range equity calculations quickly and easily and save time that your tablemates will appreciate.

And whether I'm in the hand or not, if I'm at the table and I see you do this, the words "Dealer, clock, please" will instantly fly out of my mouth. If you have time to play with your IPhone, you have had more than enough time to make a decision.
DesertCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 05:48 PM   #20
VAtoAC
centurion
 
VAtoAC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Location:
Posts: 173
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxrod17xx View Post
I dont think it is a question of ethics, its just against the rules to use of phone at the table especially when involved in a hand.

Bart, put em on a range and learn dem maths.

Edit: Oh and thanks for L@TB, it brought me to 2p2.
This. The ethics part shouldn't have to come up, as it's against the rules in most places. You can't use your phone at the table when in the hand. I believe this would apply to any electronic device as you could be calling or texting someone for help also.

As far as ethical (if it was allowed), I would find it very disrespectful for the amount of time it would take, as you would be holding up the whole table.
VAtoAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 06:40 PM   #21
p4594spa
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 594
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

I laugh at those saying phones are not allowed. Virtually everyone casiono in the SF Bay area has a no phone rule. And virtually no one enforces it.
p4594spa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 06:47 PM   #22
LaredoChris
adept
 
LaredoChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Not Vegas :-(
Posts: 1,133
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Friends that use pokerstove alot when playing online (and run alot of sims when not playing) have been able to get a good feel for equity % based on perceived opponent ranges in common situations, which they can apply live.

I've been working on that to get some practice, it comes in handy. I'm nowhere near as good as they are yet, so I just make sure to put my villan on a hand that I beat.

Last edited by LaredoChris; 03-31-2009 at 06:48 PM. Reason: ok, 2nd half of last sentence is a level, but rest of post is true
LaredoChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 07:03 PM   #23
bema03
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 262
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by p4594spa View Post
I laugh at those saying phones are not allowed. Virtually everyone casiono in the SF Bay area has a no phone rule. And virtually no one enforces it.
I'm guessing that if everyone started using their phones/blackberries/whatevers to use pokerstove, and it slowed down the game, then players would push enforcement of the rule more than they do now.

I agree with the above poster that if someone started using their phone while in the midst of making a decision, I would just call the clock.
bema03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 07:44 PM   #24
I beat this game
banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 307
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

"The mobile phone shall not be used in any way to assist a player at a table during a hand."

I believe that would be close to how the rule is written, and therefore you should not use it.

The math isn't that difficult if it's a simple call-this-to-win-that-much-vs-this-kind-of-range, and if you're talking about the players behind you possibly calling or folding, then pokerstove can't help you with that either.
I beat this game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 07:47 PM   #25
jman220
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
jman220's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: My gimmick account is still a mod.
Posts: 10,347
Re: Ethics of using phone for calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
I was in a rare spot the other day where in holdem I wasn't sure what my approximate equity was against my villain's range. He open shoved into five people after a someone else pf raised and I was last to act. I was 100% sure he was on a draw on a 9c 8c 2s board (there is a lot of history). I had 7h 6h and was getting about 2.25 from the pot.

Is it unethical for me to use my blackberry and fire up twodimes.net or pokerstove in this given situation? It is perfectly legal to text and use your phone during a hand at the Commerce. What is my play here?

Should using PDAs be against the rules while in the midst of a hand?

What about using a phone's calculator feature to figure out pot size?

This would be illegal under Las Vegas law at least.

Edit: And by illegal, I mean, actually illegal, not just against the rules of the cardroom, as in, it's a felony.
jman220 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online