I was playing €1/€2 in Spain and got into a tricky spot.

I don’t want to discuss the strategy PF, but I’ll explain how the action went to better understand of the spot, why I don’t agree with Dealer’s decision and to ask what you guys think about it.

HERO was UTG+1 with ~150bb.
Villains were mostly short (30-90bb).

Hero has AKo and open to 7€, got 2 calls from LP and BB raises to 21€.

Now... A call here wouldn’t be bad being IP and the sizing tells me that he probably don’t have a monster. But considering that we have 2 other players left, with sooooo good odds to call behind (14€) and the pot would be really big (low SPR for effective stack), I definetly want to raise my hand to isolate myself vs BB or even end the hand there.

So I decided to make a 2,5x 4Bet.

Now... On my stack I have something like 10-12 chips of 10€, 3 chips of 50€ and a few of 5€ and 1€.

I was playing with the 5’s / 1’s and had the 10’s over the 50’s in a single pile.

When I’d decided the sizing, I put chips I was playing in front of the pile, I grab all 10€’s chips in a slow and clear move, put them by side, grab one 50€’s chip, put it over my cards, remove the 7€ of my opening raise, grab the 50€ once again and smoothly throw em through the betting line.

Dealer than anounces “CALL”.
I say: “It was a raise” before anyone act behind, but a reg goes with a call of 21€ right before.

Dealer says “it was a call”

I say: “I clearly had enough chips to call the 21€ bet, and I do think my action was really clear as a raise”.

“It was a call” - Reg

“It was a call” - Dealer

“Ok, nevermind”.

At that point I knew that villains would advocate in favor of the CALL, because they got such a good price and I it clearly bodered me.
So I just agreed and moved on with the hand at this 4handed tricky pot, that I ended up winning, but... The question is:

Was my action that clear?
I know a single chip usually means call, but wasn’t this a standard exception?

What you guys think?

Thanks

In the end, you removed your 7€ and threw in a single 50€ chip, is that right?

Seems like a clear call to me.

That’s right.

Even when I correct the dealer right after he anounces de call?

Thank you.
If so I will have it in consideration for future simular situations.

There is a standard rule that a single chip tossed in is a call to avoid any ambiguity.

You tried to invoke the standard exception to the standard rule of a single chip tossed in is a call to avoid any ambiguity by tossing in a single chip.

Dealer then had to scratch his head and wondered if you were tossing in a single chip using the single chip tossed in is a call rule or if you were using the standard exception to the single chip tossed in is a call rule and by tossing in a single chip were actually raising.

Regs at the table made the standard ruling enforcing the standard rule and overriding the standard exception.

Announce your action or put more than one chip in the pot. You can’t expect the dealer or other players to count your stack to see if you could have called in a different way.

Since it’s a small stakes game and you are new to live poker, the dealer could have tried to clarify your action, but as soon as another player behind you acts on your call, it’s too late for that.

I agree with everyone else above.

I don't know what "standard exception" you're referring to. As described, what you did is a clear call. As madlex said, in a low stakes game you might be able to get a floor to give you a warning and let you raise anyway, but the chances of that significantly dwindle once there is a call behind you.

I can only think of two exceptions to the oversized chips rule (and neither is so standard that you should rely on it), neither of which is what happened here:

1. You have enough in chips already out to cover a call (because at least one was oversize when originally bet), so adding even a single additional chip is not required to call, so it can be ruled a raise.

2. You take back the chips already bet (in this case your 7), and throw them out again with your oversize chip(s).

Neither of the above are actually written into the rule, they are just experienced interpretations, so you are highly encouraged to verbalize your action anyway to avoid having a ruling go against you, even in these cases.

Don't do this. Large denom chips must be clearly visible, and go on top or in front. You risk having them ruled out of play for a hand (or worse yet, out of play if you win, but in play if you lose) if the floor thinks you are trying to hide them. It's a bad habit to get into.

though upon re-reading, it sounds like maybe you did throw the 7 back in with the 50?
You later agreed with someone who asked if you removed the 7 and threw in a 50, so it's not really clear if the 7 went back in or not.

If so, that would be one of the "exceptions", but as mentioned it's definitely not something I would count on a floor knowing about or ruling in your favor. Protect yourself, and verbalize the raise first.

When a Player pulls back chips that are already 'in the pot' they are committed to a call but may still raise. How they continue will determine if it's only a call or raise ... obv verbal is always best.

So now you toss only one (over-sized) chip into an 'empty' betting area ... that's a call. (TDA Rule 51)

Now let's say that you only pull back a portion of the chips you already had out there. Now the Multi-chip betting rules apply (TDA Rule 49) and in your case it would've been a raise to 51, 52, 55 or 56 based on which chip(s) you pulled back before tossing out the 50.

In an even weirder spot. Let's say you had a 25 out there to cover your 7 and you then pulled it back before tossing out the single 50 chip ... still a call. That's a potential head-scratcher since the 25 did cover the 21 raise.

Just remember that when you pull chips back you are basically starting your betting process over ... you just don't have the option to fold anymore. GL

FWIW, I was unsure about that after reading OP but thought the first question and answer cleared it up.

If you throw in 57 after removing the previously bet 7, that should be ruled a raise or at least make the dealer confirm the action. I also thought it’s probably 50 because OP mentioned making it 2.5x, but since that would be 53, a raise to 57 wouldn’t be that much less likely than one to 50.

That might be a “standard” (house) rule, but it’s certainly not always enforced in all card rooms. Prime example is BB having a $5 chip out and replacing that with 2 (or 3) $1 chips before or after folding their hand to a raise. Maybe some rooms enforce a call here, especially if the player does it before throwing in his cards, but I’ve never witnessed it.

You nailed a perfect spot, yes. Very often in 1-2-5 PLO I will do this very thing from the SB or BB. I almost always put a 5 out and then switch to singles if I fold. I've had a few Dealers give me 'the look' if I'm not very careful or they've never seen me do it. I usually cap the cards with the proper blind amount and then push that into the middle while I take my 5 back to my stack upon return of my hand. Occasionally I will pull the 5 back first and risk being called on the carpet by the rules police. GL

No matter what you did with the chips that were already in the pot, it will always be a call if you only throw one chip in without saying anything.

I was used to play on poker clubs in Brasil (Cassinos not alowed) and they were a little more flexible to the “intention” of the player.

That’s why I thought it was a wrong decision by the dealer, but I totally agree with all of you.

“Intentions” can be really subjective and it’s good to enforce such rules.

Thank you all for explaining that to me.


And no, I did not used any of the initial 7€ chips. It was a single chip action.

I rarely use a single chip when I raise. I will add on the smallest denomination chip so there will be no ambiguity.

If I don't have any small denomination chips I say raise before I put the single chip out. Usually I say "raise to X" so there is no confusion.

I'm sure this happens to just about everyone if you play long enough. I just chalked it up to a learning experience. But part of the lesson for me is that people will tend to want to take advantage of mistakes like that.

If I am the only other player in a hand in a cash game, I will let the raise stand if the intent is made clear before I act.

Please don't put stuff underneath chips going into the pot. Cards, buttons, etc, is annoying af when the dealer really only has one hand to work with.

Once the chip has entered the betting area, or crossed the betting line, or been pushed forward (whatever rule your room uses), it is a call. You aren't allowed to call, scan for reaction, then declare that it was a raise. (I know that wasn't what you were doing, but that is what would happen if a post-action verbal declaration was allowed)

Just say raise and then whatever you throw in will be considered a raise.

At a casino, I'm expecting that to be ruled a call every time. Even when you speak up.

It seems that you've gotten a lot of good advice. Including adding a single small denom chip to be sure the visual is a raise.*

* I've seen players put multiple chips in on a call (verbalizing prior) to make change easier. The raise is to $17 and the player calls with a $25 and two $1s to get two $5s back. The dealers never seem pleased, but oblige. Naturally, the $5 gets uses for a $2 call of the blinds soon after

I had a similar thing happen in a hand at my table - dealer initially ruled it a call; then she doubted herself, thinking it may be a raise - I told her that it was a call and she had it right the first time around. Floor agreed.