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Old 10-31-2017, 08:55 PM   #26
Fore
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

Not a hugePH fan though I believe he is or at least was a very good blue tournament player. But what makes you think he would welch on a bet? He sucks at cash, loses his shirt, and cries about it all. But I have not heard he is one to dodge paying his debts.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:25 AM   #27
leavesofliberty
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore View Post
Not a hugePH fan though I believe he is or at least was a very good blue tournament player. But what makes you think he would welch on a bet? He sucks at cash, loses his shirt, and cries about it all. But I have not heard he is one to dodge paying his debts.
He wouldn't welch so much as weasel, because the way he was rationalizing his point of view and couldn't possibly be wrong. It's not the bet so much as him not admitting he's wrong. The bet would've just turned into finding a 3rd party who agrees with him, like the Mouth, etc. PH seems pretty cool overall, imho.

But, I'm in the camp that it's reasonable to want to see what your opponent bluffed with. It use to be that bluffs were with air, but as the game is starting to evolve people will want to know exactly what your opponent is bluffing with to see if they are bluffing too much or too little, or randomly/suboptimally. And, it becomes more important to hide what you have as much as possible.

It's not exactly something you can bet on, and it's been my experience that bets like this never work in practice, and are brought about by misunderstandings which are compounded.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 11-01-2017 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:06 AM   #28
Ray Zee
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

yes its nice to know but you can infer most of it. if you do insist on a player showing you can be sure he will make you show from then on. and remember when you get to see his you only get one benefit from it. but when he makes you show the whole table gets the benefit. plus they watch and pay attention when normally most dont.
something to consider.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:56 AM   #29
madlex
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

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Originally Posted by leavesofliberty View Post
I remember PH going bat**** on TV when he was caught bluffing on the river in hold'em, and his opponent insisted on not opening his hand until PH opened his. He then wanted to wager on what was etiquette, etc. like a giant ass. IMO, he would've lost that wager too (and then not paid).
I am not sure if he would have lost that wager. There are lots of (mostly older) live players who would agree with him on that one. I haven't played "in the old days" but apparently etiquette was/is to table your hand if you think you have the winner unless the other player has given you reason not to do so.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:27 PM   #30
CrazyJoe113
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

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Originally Posted by leavesofliberty View Post
I remember PH going bat**** on TV when he was caught bluffing on the river in hold'em, and his opponent insisted on not opening his hand until PH opened his. He then wanted to wager on what was etiquette, etc. like a giant ass. IMO, he would've lost that wager too (and then not paid).
It was JRB!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xou55P5DJE4
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:43 AM   #31
HawkesDave
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

I don't think anyone who says this was bad form or scummy is reading it properly.

The player holding the straight here showed the 2p BEFORE he called, in order to get a read. AFTER he called, and the other player turned up better than 2p, he immediately turned over his non-nut straight. Not his job to say "straight."

Nothing scummy here whatsoever.
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:30 PM   #32
Ray Zee
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

what wasnt right to do is show the two pair before calling to try and get a read. same as badgering a player with talk to get a read.

and as said though he didnt do a slow roll.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:48 AM   #33
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

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Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
what wasnt right to do is show the two pair before calling to try and get a read. same as badgering a player with talk to get a read.

and as said though he didnt do a slow roll.
You can argue that table talk is obnoxious, but it is certainly part of the game, and not considered bad form or scummy. If the room has no rule against exposing your hand when action is pending, then showing two of his cards is a perfectly acceptable move.

Now, a lot of players don't like the badgering, aggressive, or dishonest table talk that goes on (I don't personally do it and find it annoying), but it is certainly considered part of the game.
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:12 PM   #34
HawkesDave
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

Ray Zee, maybe you're accustomed to rules that don't allow players to show cards to get a read, but if this room does, then why would we judge the player in any way for adhering to the rules? I think badgering a player might be against their rules possibly, but the OP didn't give any indication that the player that showed 2p was ever badgering the other player.

You can argue with the rule being a bad one, if you feel that way, but I'd never fault a player for using the rule as it's allowed to be intended. They aren't working in any gray area here. The room allows it, they did it.
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Old 11-03-2017, 02:44 PM   #35
madlex
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

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what wasnt right to do is show the two pair before calling to try and get a read. same as badgering a player with talk to get a read.
Blame people like DN who have been doing that on TV for the last 15 years. I hate everything that stops the game from progressing in a timely manner, but if the poker room allows players to show cards and talk about the content of their hand when heads-up, player Bs behavior is perfectly acceptable in that regard.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:25 PM   #36
Ray Zee
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

i didnt say legal i said right. and it isnt right to badger a player. it comes back at you. not good for the game at all.
just because there isnt a rule against something doesnt mean you should do it without considering the repercussions and how it feels to the other players.

plus it slows the game down to a crawl and that isnt good for anyone except those that are tossing off their money. as that will happen more slowly as well.
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Old 11-09-2017, 12:36 PM   #37
MJ88
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

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Originally Posted by Headhunter13 View Post
...Slow-roll, or not?
Not even close to a slowroll, but a stupid waste of everyone's time.
(Even if showing cards HU to get a read is permitted, showing those two cards (two pair) on that board isn't going to get any kind of usable read.)
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:14 AM   #38
redrumi
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Re: Do you consider this a slow roll?

i pretty much never announce my hand as i turn it over, i just flip them right away either way unless i was bluffing when it comes to showdown
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