Do spectators have an obligation to call out misread hands? - Poker Card Room

For instance if one hand beats another, but the player with the losing hand is going to get the pot and no one notices except a spectator, should the spectator speak up?

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02-23-2018 , 08:16 PM

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,408

Must? No. Should or Can? Sure.

Either way, if he does, I wouldn't complain.

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02-23-2018 , 08:44 PM

browni3141

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Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

My own morals would compel me too, in spirit if the fairness and integrity of the game.

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02-23-2018 , 09:11 PM

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 12,262

I am going to say no. The reason I say no is simply which is more likely, that a spectator saw something that all the people involved missed, or the spectator is mistaken about what he saw. Note: this doesn't apply if you are a floor person that can make the dealer stop what they are doing before the evidence of what you see is gone.

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02-23-2018 , 09:17 PM

jcorb

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,978

what happened to '...if you see something, say something...'

All that is required for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

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02-23-2018 , 09:19 PM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,332

Why not? But if she's wrong she's gonna look like a fool :O

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02-23-2018 , 10:02 PM

Eclipse14

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 128

If hands are tabled, yes obviously. If not stfu.

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02-23-2018 , 10:48 PM

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

The question is confusing. Many agree that a seated player ought to speak up but OP might be talking about someone rail-birding the game in which case NO!

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02-24-2018 , 12:11 AM

Lordkjun

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 746

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclipse14

If hands are tabled, yes obviously. If not stfu.

+1

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02-24-2018 , 05:05 AM

#10

bolt2112

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 10,288

Quote:

Originally Posted by RR

+1 on this and I'll go against the majority of the people in this thread. If you're sitting at the table, speak up whether you're in the hand or not. If you're sitting on the rail, keep your mouth shut.

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02-24-2018 , 09:57 AM

#11

Bene Gesserit

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

I think OP meant someone not seated at the table. It's not the worst thing , but it really could be awkward. I would avoid doing that personally.

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02-24-2018 , 12:55 PM

#12

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

The false positives are a small cost imo. Yeah it's annoying, but the exceptions make it worthwhile.

Also, while the population as a whole might have a low rate of accuracy, individuals are polarized. There are your backseat driver types who always need to be involved, and then there are those who use discretion and speak up only when something feels off. The latter group will be right more often than not.

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02-24-2018 , 12:58 PM

#13

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

I have been the only person at the table before who caught a mistake. Maybe you have too. And so you can imagine that an entire table might make a mistake while you are just spectating, which has also happened to me. If I were at the table, I'd want someone like you or me to speak up!

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02-24-2018 , 01:19 PM

#14

Lordkjun

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 746

Did OP mean people on the rail or players in the game but not in the hand? The former should stfu and the latter should speak up imo.

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02-24-2018 , 02:22 PM

#15

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Beale

The question is confusing. Many agree that a seated player ought to speak up but OP might be talking about someone rail-birding the game in which case NO!

Question not really confusing to me. Answer is still yes. Game integrity. I agree likelihood of a passer byer actually being right is slim. But them speaking up to see that the best hand wins is good for the game. Now if can’t be confirmed impound pot and check the cameras. Also work on procedures.

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02-24-2018 , 02:26 PM

#16

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordkjun

Did OP mean people on the rail or players in the game but not in the hand? The former should stfu and the latter should speak up imo.

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Everyone. Even non players not only can but should speak up to correct an error. Best tabled hand should win regardless of who has to point out it is the best hand.

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02-24-2018 , 03:45 PM

#17

Lordkjun

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 746

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fore

Everyone. Even non players not only can but should speak up to correct an error. Best tabled hand should win regardless of who has to point out it is the best hand.

I guess we're just gonna disagree. I can respect you're view, but I feel that other than the floor, you're either in the game or you're not.

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02-24-2018 , 04:43 PM

#18

albedoa

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

The others who disagree are at least sharing their reasoning. Not much value coming in here and being like “stfu, okay bye”.

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02-24-2018 , 04:45 PM

#19

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,877

Spectators don't have an obligation to do anything.

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02-24-2018 , 04:47 PM

#20

Lordkjun

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 746

Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

The others who disagree are at least sharing their reasoning. Not much value coming in here and being like “stfu, okay bye”.

Is that directed at me? I shared my reasoning. You're in the game, you play it and protect the integrity of it. Those on the rail have no skin in the game and should stick to observing it and not attempt to influence it.

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02-24-2018 , 04:50 PM

#21

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

Influence it? If everyone playing the game has an interest in upholding its integrity, why wouldn’t they want an observer to speak up?

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02-24-2018 , 04:54 PM

#22

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

If you don’t see a difference between your “reasoning” of “because” and others who are explaining “because why” then yeah we’ll have to agree to disagree.

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02-24-2018 , 04:54 PM

#23

Lordkjun

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 746

Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

Influence it? If everyone playing the game has an interest in upholding its integrity, why wouldn’t they want an observer to speak up?

Because the 10 seats wife, the drunk guy in the 7 seats friend and the passer by are not in the game. It's no different than a fan in the stands yelling at a ref at a basketball game because he thinks there was a foul. Those involved in the game are the one's who have a responsibility....spectators do not.

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02-24-2018 , 05:09 PM

#24

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,877

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordkjun

Those involved in the game are the one's who have a responsibility....spectators do not.

While this is true, there's nothing wrong with spectators doing so.

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02-24-2018 , 05:13 PM

#25

Lordkjun

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 746

I'm not upset if they do....I'm just stating my opinion to the question that was asking for the internet's opinion.

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