SB goes all in for 250, hero throws in 400 to put everyone all-in but doesn't say anything,another villain with 320, just calls the 250 quickly and says my bet is just a call.

Did I get angle shot or am I just stupid for not announcing all-in? At the time I thought that throwing in enough to put the last effective stack all-in was the same thing.

Any idea what the ruling should be? Angle shot or stupidity?

What do you think?

i mean i dont think it matters much with $750 in the pot and $70 left behind, as far as i know that is just a call though if you had more chips behind

I think it's worth the $70 lesson to teach you how to say, "Raise."

If you throw in more than half the raise (375) then it is a raise according to tda. Doesn't seem like this would matter unless its the river and then I'd just call the floor and let them decide but pretty sure unless you string raised it'll be a raise

Barring unusual denominations chip you are correct OP (not "hero" -- there was nothing heroic in this) is obligated to a raise. Unless of course he threw out 2 T200 chips or 1 T400 chip in which case this a call.

Now to address his question .... how is this an angle shot. If the Floor rules you only called that is not an angleshot that is just a bad ruling (or a bad rule as some rooms use a rule that if you don;t put out a full raise its just a call).

The player behind me was who I thought might have been to save 70$. Just the way it way down how he called instantly instead of asking what it was made it seem like he was angling but I didn't know the rule. I was going to call the floor but felt stupid for not just saying raise.

Certainly felt like i got angled and I am pretty sure I did

a) Announcing all-in can lead to a nasty surprise if another player has a lot more chips than you thought

b) No, throwing in enough to cover the effective stacks of other is not a raise in itself. Heads up, opponent bets 200 and has 20 left. If you toss in 220 or even announce "220" without saying that awful word "raise", then you have just called.

c) I guess "angle" has a new definition as "anything I don't like"

What do you think angle means?

I'd be too busy laughing inside at his holding back of $70 to worry about it. But it sounds like he's right in terms of rules.

We still have no answer to what chips were thrown out...this is important. Plus does the house use TDA rules? They may not. Also some houses will use TDA but not include 50% rule. I take this was a tourney?

Oh and always announce.

this has nothing to do with an angle shoot.

When a player goes all in, you need to double the bet for it to be a raise, so you only called. No one angle shot you.

It doesn't matter what the other payers "had left". You need to either double the bet, or announce raise or all in.

Many poker rooms have the rule that if you put out an amount of chips that is more than half way to being a legal raise, then it's not a call it's a raise, even if you didn't say anything while doing it.

In this case anything 375 or higher would qualify as a raise in any room with that rule.

So in those rooms, this would be a raise, even though OP didn't actually say raise while putting the chips out.

I threw out 4 100$ chips. When I say I felt angled I meant that he knew I meant to raise, and chose to quickly call and discourage calling the floor. Ultimately it's my fault and my mistake but I didn't call the floor so I don't k ow what the ruling would be.

Is this a self dealt game?

We can not tell you because we do not know what the house rules are, but if it is strict TDA then its a raise. We are assuming this is a tourney.

It is a raise in both tourney/TDA and cash/RRoP rulesets.

As a matter of practicality, though, I do not advocate putting in substantially less than a full raise without saying raise.

I know you didn't because you covered everyone remaining in the hand with just the extra 20 or whatever. Unfortunately, that is not enough. If you put in only the small extra amount without saying raise, then it is just a call. "Luckily" for you in this case the amount you put out was more than half of the amount needed for a full raise, so it should have been ruled a raise. "Unfortunately" either the floor was in error, or their ruleset is nonstandard in this regard.

We don't know what the house rules are, nor what the floor ruled. Holding you to the rules is not an angle. For example, if I have the nuts and a player acts out of turn to raise, it is not an angle if I just call, forcing is action to stand, then reraise him.

An angle is usually when a player uses ambiguous action to misrepresent his intent, or to try and freeroll by keeping options open (for example, the player that fakes a call by moving chips forward but not across the betting line, in a casino with a betting line, then claims he did not call when the other player tables his hand).

Agree. You did what you did (physically moving chips without clarifying verbiage), what it meant was subject to house rules, and asking the floor to rule on it is in no way an angle. Floor either ruled correctly or incorrectly, but this is irrelevant.
(Note: if the house rule were that it should have been ruled a raise, and the floor deliberately ruled it a call because he was pals with the other player, this would have been outright cheating.)
A more general definition of angling is doing something to gain advantage which is within the rules, but contrary to the spirit of the rules and the fairness of the game.

I think a lot depends.

What are the room rules regarding putting in too much to call? What were the blinds, just because the SB went all-in for 250, if the blinds were high enough, the 400 itself might have been a legal raise. As mentioned, putting in 50% of a raise in many places is enough to force the raise.

I don't think this is an angle, although you could have called a floor for a ruling to see if it was a raise. The angle would have been V announcing call, watching the board run out, and then declaring that they only called T$XX, or were all-in depending on the strength of their final hand, and or wanting the turn/river to be re-run.

I'm not calling you stupid for not announcing all-in. I think it's a relatively cheap lesson. Saying raise in this case is effectively all-in, and protects against the big chips you didn't see in another stack.

I would call you silly for saying "I put you all-in", as you can only bet your chips. I suppose others would defend it.

OP, what you really want to ask is if someone used a technicality to hold you to something other than what you intended. The answer to that is yes. This is not an angle. If I were you I would be annoyed too, but I would also find out the house rules on this situation.

Isn't that the definition of an angle?

No.

I'm not saying the OP was angled. But I always defined an angle as using ambiguity or a technically to enforce something other than what was intended.

By that definition application of almost any rule I'd an angle.

It was a cash game 5/5. I guess my understanding of what an angle is and isn't is just s bit off. Thanks for the discussion everyone.

Next time I'll make sure to just call the floor.