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Did I angle shoot? Help!

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11-15-2017 , 03:46 PM

Outoftime44444

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 801

New player, need better opinions. Playing $400 NL live.

So there is an idiot to my right (idiot who ended up stacking me for $550)

Twice i reached for chips to bet and he folded without me betting anything.

So on the 3rd time i fully intended to check

but slowly moved my hands to my chips to see if he'd just fold again

and he did, just folded

Is this angleshooting by grabbing my chips to make it seem like I was going to bet , but no plans to bet? (no pump fake or putting chips near the line)

Thanks in advance!

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11-15-2017 , 03:55 PM

kansaisupra

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 679

I don't think its an angle. If the player is willing to fold before you do anything that is on him.

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11-15-2017 , 03:58 PM

Tuma

Worships Amon-Ra

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 16,385

You were giving a reverse tell. Very common and not angly whatsoever.

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11-15-2017 , 04:04 PM

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Eh, it's somewhat angle-ish, but I wouldn't feel particularly bad about it.

This has nothing to do with a "reverse tell" though. If someone is trying to fake a tell, they do it when the action is on someone else, not on themselves. There is no point in making someone think you are going to do something different than your intended action when they will see your final action before it is their turn again.

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11-15-2017 , 04:26 PM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,311

not an angle. That moves been around forever, making it look like you're gonna bet then changing your mind and checking at the last minute, usually to buy a free card or keep the pot to a minimum.

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11-15-2017 , 04:37 PM

Bene Gesserit

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

Not an angle at all IMHO. Just an old move that still works on some folks. Lots of other folks are certainly aware of it.

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11-15-2017 , 04:49 PM

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,853

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

This has nothing to do with a "reverse tell" though. If someone is trying to fake a tell, they do it when the action is on someone else, not on themselves. There is no point in making someone think you are going to do something different than your intended action when they will see your final action before it is their turn again.

This is kind of an odd take.

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11-15-2017 , 08:28 PM

Sensitivenewageguy

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 142

Not an angle. Part of the game. Play on.

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11-15-2017 , 09:26 PM

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

The real offense is by the guy who keeps folding out of turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

This is kind of an odd take.

Especially as a reply to a story where that literally happened and the intended effect was achieved.

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11-15-2017 , 09:48 PM

#10

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

The real offense is by the guy who keeps folding out of turn.

Especially as a reply to a story where that literally happened and the intended effect was achieved.

That's why I think it was closer to an angle than a "reverse tell".

The reverse tell would have been if he moved for his chips while the action was on the other guy, in hopes of inducing a check. Pretending to bet in hopes of inducing a muck is angly. But as I said, I don't think it's a terrible one, and I wouldn't feel bad about it, at least in a headsup pot. If it's not headsup then you're right that the guy folding out of turn is causing problems.

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11-15-2017 , 09:52 PM

#11

Rawlz517

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 58,239

Not an angle, IMO

I think it would be debatable if you were pump faking with chips in hand. Like sliding them half an inch forward trying to draw a reaction.

As you did, totally fine. Villain's fault for being foolish

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11-15-2017 , 10:02 PM

#12

donkatruck

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,911

Question for OP--Do you take an eternity every time it's your turn to act? In poker, an eternity is 10 seconds.

Edit--never mind. He's on your right? He's folding in turn based your percieved action after his turn???

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11-15-2017 , 10:40 PM

#13

Riverine

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 199

OP- you say that twice you moved for your chips and he folded without you betting anything. But if he is on your right, then he will always act before you can bet anything. It's not like he can wait to see if you actually bet and then act. So while he may have folded because your move fooled him into thinking you were going to bet (an old move that some beginners still fall for, but not an angle at all) he also may have been planning to fold anyway.

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11-15-2017 , 11:59 PM

#14

albedoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,392

Woah I totally missed that Villain was on the right (because this thread barely makes sense in that case). OP should not be signaling anything, and Villain is free to fold if it’s his turn to act.

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11-16-2017 , 08:40 AM

#15

Lord_Crispen

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

Woah I totally missed that Villain was on the right (because this thread barely makes sense in that case). OP should not be signaling anything, and Villain is free to fold if it’s his turn to act.

I'm assuming the villain checked it to our OP. Maybe I missed it, but he never explicitly states that he's 'fake acting out of turn'. That would be kinda angle-ish but as played if he was checked to, totally fair game as long as he's not wasting everyone's time for nothing.

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11-16-2017 , 09:09 AM

#16

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,868

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

There is no point in making someone think you are going to do something different
than your intended action when they will see your final action before it is their turn again.

No point? It won him the pot.

It's an angle that's invited. I have no problem with it.

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11-16-2017 , 11:00 AM

#17

answer20

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Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,844

I have picked up on players who will insta-muck if they miss and I go for chips and have used it on occasion to try and get a fold when I might have checked behind.

To me an angle is a 'knowing' stretch of the rules in an effort to take advantage of a spot. Last time I checked it's not against the rules to touch your chips. I would put this in more of the tell category ... but for the sake of keeping the thread going let's call it a 'ploy' and try to define the differences!! GL

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11-16-2017 , 11:09 AM

#18

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,311

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

To me an angle is a 'knowing' stretch of the rules in an effort to take advantage of a spot. Last time I checked it's not against the rules to touch your chips. I would put this in more of the tell category ... but for the sake of keeping the thread going let's call it a 'ploy' and try to define the differences!! GL

Angle shooting doesn't mean you have to violate a rule in order for it to be an angle shot

Wikipedia - Angle shooting is engaging in actions that may technically be within the scope of the rules of the game, but that are considered unethical or unfair to exploit or take advantage of another player.

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11-16-2017 , 11:49 AM

#19

Tuma

Worships Amon-Ra

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 16,385

How is moving your hand towards your chips unethical or unfair?

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11-16-2017 , 12:03 PM

#20

Bene Gesserit

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

It is in the realm of tells and false tells. Not unethical angles.

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11-16-2017 , 12:23 PM

#21

SwolyswoND

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,976

Not remotely close to an angle. If he wants to fold before you act, that's his problem.

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11-16-2017 , 02:25 PM

#22

cardzone

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 86

No angle played here. Must have been a real newbie.

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11-16-2017 , 02:36 PM

#23

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamraise

No point? It won him the pot.

It's an angle that's invited. I have no problem with it.

Right, there would be no point _if it were a reverse tell_. The reason this worked is because it's an angle. Seems like you agree with me. I also said it was an angle but I wouldn't feel too bad about it.

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11-16-2017 , 03:09 PM

#24

Didace

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,853

If the board comes all spades and I sit up real straight with my eyes wide and everyone folds to me, is it an angle?

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11-16-2017 , 03:49 PM

#25

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,855

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

If the board comes all spades and I sit up real straight with my eyes wide and everyone folds to me, is it an angle?

That is similar to this thread in basically no ways at all.

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