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Old 11-15-2017, 03:46 PM   #1
Outoftime44444
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Did I angle shoot? Help!

New player, need better opinions. Playing $400 NL live.

So there is an idiot to my right (idiot who ended up stacking me for $550)

Twice i reached for chips to bet and he folded without me betting anything.

So on the 3rd time i fully intended to check

but slowly moved my hands to my chips to see if he'd just fold again

and he did, just folded

Is this angleshooting by grabbing my chips to make it seem like I was going to bet , but no plans to bet? (no pump fake or putting chips near the line)

Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:55 PM   #2
kansaisupra
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

I don't think its an angle. If the player is willing to fold before you do anything that is on him.
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:58 PM   #3
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

You were giving a reverse tell. Very common and not angly whatsoever.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:04 PM   #4
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Eh, it's somewhat angle-ish, but I wouldn't feel particularly bad about it.

This has nothing to do with a "reverse tell" though. If someone is trying to fake a tell, they do it when the action is on someone else, not on themselves. There is no point in making someone think you are going to do something different than your intended action when they will see your final action before it is their turn again.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:26 PM   #5
Playbig2000
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

not an angle. That moves been around forever, making it look like you're gonna bet then changing your mind and checking at the last minute, usually to buy a free card or keep the pot to a minimum.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:37 PM   #6
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Not an angle at all IMHO. Just an old move that still works on some folks. Lots of other folks are certainly aware of it.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:49 PM   #7
Didace
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
This has nothing to do with a "reverse tell" though. If someone is trying to fake a tell, they do it when the action is on someone else, not on themselves. There is no point in making someone think you are going to do something different than your intended action when they will see your final action before it is their turn again.
This is kind of an odd take.
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:28 PM   #8
Sensitivenewageguy
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Not an angle. Part of the game. Play on.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:26 PM   #9
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

The real offense is by the guy who keeps folding out of turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
This is kind of an odd take.
Especially as a reply to a story where that literally happened and the intended effect was achieved.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:48 PM   #10
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
The real offense is by the guy who keeps folding out of turn.



Especially as a reply to a story where that literally happened and the intended effect was achieved.
That's why I think it was closer to an angle than a "reverse tell".

The reverse tell would have been if he moved for his chips while the action was on the other guy, in hopes of inducing a check. Pretending to bet in hopes of inducing a muck is angly. But as I said, I don't think it's a terrible one, and I wouldn't feel bad about it, at least in a headsup pot. If it's not headsup then you're right that the guy folding out of turn is causing problems.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:52 PM   #11
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Not an angle, IMO

I think it would be debatable if you were pump faking with chips in hand. Like sliding them half an inch forward trying to draw a reaction.

As you did, totally fine. Villain's fault for being foolish
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:02 PM   #12
donkatruck
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Question for OP--Do you take an eternity every time it's your turn to act? In poker, an eternity is 10 seconds.

Edit--never mind. He's on your right? He's folding in turn based your percieved action after his turn???
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:40 PM   #13
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

OP- you say that twice you moved for your chips and he folded without you betting anything. But if he is on your right, then he will always act before you can bet anything. It's not like he can wait to see if you actually bet and then act. So while he may have folded because your move fooled him into thinking you were going to bet (an old move that some beginners still fall for, but not an angle at all) he also may have been planning to fold anyway.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:59 PM   #14
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Woah I totally missed that Villain was on the right (because this thread barely makes sense in that case). OP should not be signaling anything, and Villain is free to fold if it’s his turn to act.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:40 AM   #15
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
Woah I totally missed that Villain was on the right (because this thread barely makes sense in that case). OP should not be signaling anything, and Villain is free to fold if it’s his turn to act.
I'm assuming the villain checked it to our OP. Maybe I missed it, but he never explicitly states that he's 'fake acting out of turn'. That would be kinda angle-ish but as played if he was checked to, totally fair game as long as he's not wasting everyone's time for nothing.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:09 AM   #16
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
There is no point in making someone think you are going to do something different
than your intended action when they will see your final action before it is their turn again.
No point? It won him the pot.

It's an angle that's invited. I have no problem with it.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:00 AM   #17
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

I have picked up on players who will insta-muck if they miss and I go for chips and have used it on occasion to try and get a fold when I might have checked behind.

To me an angle is a 'knowing' stretch of the rules in an effort to take advantage of a spot. Last time I checked it's not against the rules to touch your chips. I would put this in more of the tell category ... but for the sake of keeping the thread going let's call it a 'ploy' and try to define the differences!! GL
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:09 AM   #18
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
To me an angle is a 'knowing' stretch of the rules in an effort to take advantage of a spot. Last time I checked it's not against the rules to touch your chips. I would put this in more of the tell category ... but for the sake of keeping the thread going let's call it a 'ploy' and try to define the differences!! GL
Angle shooting doesn't mean you have to violate a rule in order for it to be an angle shot

Wikipedia - Angle shooting is engaging in actions that may technically be within the scope of the rules of the game, but that are considered unethical or unfair to exploit or take advantage of another player.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:49 AM   #19
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

How is moving your hand towards your chips unethical or unfair?
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:03 PM   #20
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

It is in the realm of tells and false tells. Not unethical angles.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:23 PM   #21
SwolyswoND
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Not remotely close to an angle. If he wants to fold before you act, that's his problem.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:25 PM   #22
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

No angle played here. Must have been a real newbie.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:36 PM   #23
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steamraise View Post
No point? It won him the pot.

It's an angle that's invited. I have no problem with it.
Right, there would be no point _if it were a reverse tell_. The reason this worked is because it's an angle. Seems like you agree with me. I also said it was an angle but I wouldn't feel too bad about it.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:09 PM   #24
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

If the board comes all spades and I sit up real straight with my eyes wide and everyone folds to me, is it an angle?
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:49 PM   #25
chillrob
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Re: Did I angle shoot? Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
If the board comes all spades and I sit up real straight with my eyes wide and everyone folds to me, is it an angle?
That is similar to this thread in basically no ways at all.
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