I took a long break from from poker during covid online and live. I never put in too many hours live until recently because online poker is lacking. I was playing 2/3 today and there was a fish I played with the other night. 3-bet's way too wide for his skill level, shoves pre-flop light (tournament style), and has no patience. The other night he tried to 3-bet me light because I was opening a lot of hands for probably two orbits. I was getting good cards. He three bets me when I have J,J... he has to fold when I call his flop bet and value bet the river.

We get into this hand almost two hands after I sit down:

Villain 100bb
Hero 70bb
BTN 85bb

I sit down and Im dealt Ad,Qd, I open to $10, BTN calls, SB folds, villain looks at me and 3-bets to $30 from BB.
Hero calls
Btn Calls

Flop 7s,4d,4c

Villain bets $100
Hero tanks for a bit and folds
BTN shoves all in for about $190 total
Villain looks like he just got caught and begrudgingly puts in the call.
Hero requests to see both hands
BTN shows 7,7 for full house

90% positive that Villain had A,J or a pocket pair of 6,6 or less.
Board bricks out
Villain throws his hand into the muck and covers them w the rest of the deck while staring at me.
I roll my eyes and I say "I know you like to 3-bet light man... I had good cards." in a tone thats says "why are you doing that?"

Next hand starts:
Villain: "Just so you know, everyone thinks you're a dk now for wanting to see my hand. That's the kind of stuff gets you kicked out of home games."
*Roll eyes, shake my head, and watch the Lakers game*
Villain: "I had A,A and THIS guy thinks I'm doing that light." blah blah
Hero: "You're not gonna bully me. We can go outside if you have a problem with me."
Villain: "and do what? I'm talking to you, look at you, are you threatening me now? You're a psycho." "Nice cardigan bro" "Take your glasses off" Even tells me "You weren't even in the hand."
Hero: "Did running into that feel good? I hope it was worth it." shake my head and stop engaging with him.
Villain eventually loses his stack. Rebuys for 50bb and shoves his last $80 w 4,4 preflop, gets called by A,Jo, and loses.
Seat open

A guy that is drinking and speaking very loudly sits down. Hes so loud. He beats me in a hand where I have K,4 and he shoves 30bb on a Q,J on a Ac,Kc,Qh board and hits a 10 on the turn. I say "Nice hand" and he keeps yelling about everything. We get into another hand and he wont talking. I can't think about the hand. He ends up talking me into a bad call. He starts talking about how hes got my number and so I nod and tell him "nice hand" again. Guy taps other players saying "we need more of his money" and points to me. I want to politely ask him to "please be cool" but I can tell I'm triggered at this point and I need to leave. I've been dealing with a few loud drunks in the last few sessions and my patience is thin.

I am 5'7, 145 lbs 37 years old. I am not a big man. People seem to think I am an easy target/soft, its something I've dealt with my entire life. I hate having to make it clear to people that I don't like to be fked with. I train a lot so that I DON'T have to be afraid to deal with these kinds of confrontations but fighting outside of a gym is so stupid. UGH...

Any advice/wisdom on if this gets better and how you manage drunk/loud people who don't like it if you aren't entertained by them?

You're the obnoxious one here.

Oh, I see.

The moment you said 'we can go outside' you lose all credit in the argument.

You started the obnoxiousness and did not like the outcome. In future handle it better without resorting to threatening people. Unless you want a shorter lifespan

I have had a number of tough experiences with drunk people who are playing. Eventually if they get overaggressive and threatening they will be removed from the room.

One time in a tournament a really drunk guy was targeting everyone at the table verbally. Typically this is where I step in and divert their attention to me (like I did in my childhood for my younger brother to protect him from my alcoholic dad) and I let them know I will not take their b*llsh*t. Ultimately the Floor was called over (by the dealer) and gave the drunk a warning and he quieted down.

I also pissed off a regular at Foxwoods when I moved up to 20/40 LHE with a joke (that was so funny the entire table started laughing out loud) and he went after me for the next 6 years (until he stopped playing regularly and took a job). I wasn't the only guy he went after. Another pro talked to me about feeling like he was going to throw up every time he approached the entrance to Foxwoods because he was going to have to deal with this brutal regular. He ultimately stopped playing at Foxwoods after like half a year. So what did I do? I lived with it. When he would taunt me I would come back right at him with humor. The rest of the players were amused and took sides. His buddies for the most part hated me though one came up to me after a couple of years and thanked me. In the end the irony was that I learned more from him about poker than any book, person, mentor or website. He was like my personal solver. He hated me so much that every time I beat him in a hand he would spell out specifically why my play was dumb. It taught me about ranges, bet sizing, and many other strategies. Sometimes one of his buddies would warn him not to teach me anything. LOL. They couldn't have been more right.

There often is going to be an *ssh*l* at the table. I just ignore them. I concentrate on talking to people who I can have fun with and/or learn about strategy. There are always people who want to have fun and they are usually grateful to have me at the table.

My advice would be to learn how to be emotionally stable and at peace. When I find myself aggravated at the table I say the Serenity Prayer (God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference). It helps bring me back to the present in a state of calm. The things I cannot change are the drunk's drinking and rowdy behavior. The things I can change are my attitude and behavior. What I think about, who I talk to, and not worrying about what might happen. If I am feeling anxious I accept it and move on. I understand that in the end the drunk isn't going to be allowed to be physical with me or anyone else. It also is a benefit from the standpoint of winning. I am more likely to win against somebody who can't think straight.

FWIW, he's not wrong. It's not a tournament all-in so you don't have a right to see his hand unless you accuse him of doing something fishy. People don't like that. Especially if you aren't even the one to call the bet

Easiest way to deal with obnoxious people is to not listen to them or engage with them. You're basically doing the opposite.

LOL!

Hero should just move on, seriously. You lost the hand, get over it.

That's not at all the issue here, my man. The issue is you need to learn how to manage yourself and your own actions. Maybe talk with a therapist that can possibly dig up some underlying issued you might have. Whatever it is, I hope you're able to find it. This was all 100% caused by you.

So you had an opponent who 3 bets you light. Make a proper poker adjustment. Start 4 betting him lighter. The verbal crap is just that — crap. Don’t do it. Take his money instead.

For the record, asking to see his hand was a d-bag move. Telling him that we can go outside is even worse; it’s a verbal threat. You’re lucky he didn’t report you to the floor and you weren’t kicked out of the room.

And seriously, if having someone three bet you light sets you off this badly, maybe you should stop playing poker. You probably don’t have the emotional control to play successfully anyway.

Ek0 - How to deal with an obnoxious player? Personally, I'd just ignore you.

You did not get to showdown, in the vast majority of rooms this request should be denied.

I am looking forward to seeing replies on how to deal with obnoxious people live, like this guy.

Yet the second somebody (correctly) calls you out for being a dick, you suggest to go outside?

Be less of an *******?

1. People request it often in this room. I have no problem with it.
3. It was sometime after he stood up and started telling me to take my glasses off, making fun of my clothes, telling me I'm a loser for wearing a mask, and tapping other people at the table pointing at me and trying to get them to join in with him. After he left I apologized to the table for the drama, I apologized to the button directly saying "I hope you didnt feel you were inbetween that or something". Other people at the table say "Yeah I dont know why he was so mad about that."

I appreciate the response.

Hmmm idk just look at how people treat you and maybe you’ll get a better idea. Ignoring you? Fake laughing at your silly comments? Saying “I’m just here to play poker” when you start getting mad at their 3bets?

Seriously dude you need to have some introspection because the OP tells me you’re not exactly a pleasant person to play with. Asking to see someone’s hand after you’re out of the pot is lowkey fish behavior.

Edit: by that last sentence I mean, the people that request to “show all hands” are usually too horrendous at poker to take advantage of the information, and the ones that are good enough to take advantage of the situation don’t do it because they don’t want to piss off the fish.

if you know he's 3! you light and that btn is capped and you're playing shallow then why not put in a 4! where you can take it down there instead of playing a penultimate hand 3 ways and OOP?



also, 100%, you're being the obnoxious one there, absolutely uncalled for for you to demand to see his cards and then throw in additional needles as he just lost a big pot

villain was right that everyone though you were being a dickweed - that was not a lie

you then respond by asking to step outside is further proof you're being a dickweed and looking for action

you then remind everyone there you are a dickweed by needling him over his loss again


are you still confused now why the table was openly talking about colluding against you to win your money?

your size has nothing to do with it, i'd hate playing against you if you were the size of an NFL linemen just the same - you were an absolute asshat to that guy

Maybe you arenÂ’t posting everything, but in your OP, villain didnÂ’t do anything obnoxious until AFTER you asked to see his hand and subsequently suggested that the two of you go outside. After threatening him, that was when he started making fun of your appearance, etc., or at least that was how you presented it in your OP.

In any case, one of the big things you did wrong was telling an opponent that you know about a weakness in his game. Never, ever do this; it can only make him aware of it and possibly correct it, or even worse use your perception of that weakness against you.

Just an example of this that so once pulled off: (this was online but same principle). I played a hand where I had a pocket pair and flopped quads. I got no action and showed my hand just as an “as shucks” kind of thing. One guy chats to me “of course nobody called you. You are a passive nit. You never play anything unless you have the nuts.” He went on to tell me that I had a zero four bet percentage. None of this is actually true, and it didn’t really bother me, but I wanted to find out more about his perception. I wrote back to him that he probably just didn’t have a lot of my hands in his stats. He countered with “I have a lot - almost 150 hands!”

Well at that point, to put it generously, I knew I was dealing with someone who simply doesnÂ’t know as much about poker as he thinks he does. I figured IÂ’d wait for the right spot and exploit him. Well, not too longer after I get AK in MP. I open to 2.5, he three bets to like 11Bb and I four bet to 45BB. He calls. Flop is low,, dry and disconnected, something like 952r. Normally I would basically range check here; I should be able to gii if I want to with only two streets and I want to check my AA and KK hands to protect my AK that wants to check and see another card. Instead I shoved. I figured he would think IÂ’d NEVER shove with anything other than AA or maybe KK. He tank folds and shows JJ.

After the hand he actually confirmed my play. He literally said “I knew you had AA. You never would have shoved with anything else.” I just said OK and enjoyed my pot.

Interesting how detailed your OP was and yet some of the worst things villain did were completely left out.

We’re definitely getting an accurate story here.

Ill say a few things:

1. Open hand: I get asked to open my hand at least once per every other session I go to this room. I thought this was common practice and if you were involved in the hand, it was fine. As I mentioned in the first post I don't have a lot of time spent playing live. This is super bad manner apparently. I know now.

2. I threatened him: People make it seem like I stood up, ripped my shirt off, smashed a beer over my head, and told him to come outside. I asked him once, while shrugging, if he wants to go outside because I'm not going to bicker with him, attack his character, and etc. I asked him once if that's what he wanted, he clearly didn't, and I ignored him. I'm honestly asking because if you're going out of your way to antagonize/goad me, I assume you want some kind of altercation. I don't really understand what the end goal is otherwise.

3. My comment on his play: I acknowledge I shouldn't have done that. No one asked for my opinion and it doesn't matter what I think. Hes entitled to do whatever he wants. Bad for the game and... yeah. Poor sportsmanship and a dickhead move. If I see him again, I'll apologize to him about that.

4. Drunk guy colluding: Drunk guy wasn't at the table when the first guy was there. The drunk guy is a part of the story because even loud people are getting to me. The session previous, a drunk guy kept yelling and throwing his cards at the dealer. I ended my session because it was starting to annoy me.

As I mentioned in the OP... I know my patience has run thin and I am not impervious to being wrong, lacking perspective, or being hypocritical. I'll apologize to that guy next time I see him about the comments and asking to see his hand. Given the feedback in these posts, I accept that I was the one wrong in the first situation and his irritation with me had foundation. I'm going to take a break from live poker. If drunk loudness is tilting me...I accept that I am the problem, not poker, the casino, or others.

I appreciate your responses.

you're not dealing with your own behavior, you're creating excuses for it

I would try to confirm with poker room management about their rules on that.

I can't remember the last time playing in a room where someone who wasn't even involved in showdown asked to see a mucked hand and I don't think a lot of rooms would force the player to show the hand without a specific reason.

It's a little more common for players involved in showdown to ask to see another players hand but even that is far from standard behavior and I'd expect most rooms to address a player who does it frequently.

So if your has non-standard rules or practices about that, that's something important to know. Based on your opponents reaction that hand it seems like he wasn't aware about that.

he left out the part where everyone stood and gave him a round of applause

I'm willing to bet they're doing it because you do it to everyone else.

I played poker very seriously for over 10 years in many places and I can count the number on the times I've seen this on one pinky.

Just ignore the obnoxious players and try and tilt them by beating them. I'm over 65, have a large amount of money to play poker, I like to drink, play lots of pots and splash around. I'm the guy you WANT at your table but when it starts getting ugly I just rack up and leave.

this

That's a threat. You could get barred.

Welcome to live poker, Ek0!

As you've already acknowledged, the consensus appears that you need to adapt better to this environment. While some of the commentary here is a little snide, it's worth noting the general sentiment: you need to avoid confrontation and focus on being sociable.

Wherever you play, you'll find players who get upset because they lose. Sometimes, random things like card distribution or your cardigan can trigger them, often to the point that it seems unjust.

You have to learn to manage these situations, though, because they'll continue to arise. I have to agree with many that asking to see an opponent's cards is generally poor form, unless you are confident they are colluding (and if this is the case you should speak to the floor away from the table so they can keep an eye on it, too).

Personally, if I found myself saying some of the things you said ("you like to 3bet light") and displaying that kind of body language (e.g. rolling eyes) I'd be leaving the table at the first opportunity, unless the game was particularly good. I mean, when you suggest going outside, you've definitely crossed a line that is not only -EV for your poker game but -EV for the table as a whole.

I like the fact that you've posted this experience, including the all the dialogue etc., and hope you make the most of the feedback.

Why did you ask to see his hand?

For one, being a cash game, you are implying something shady is going on. Not cool if you don't have reasonable suspicion. For two, what is seeing his going to prove in your mind? You already know he is 3 betting light. If he turns over AJ or A10 or worse, what difference does it make? You already knew it was light. If he turns over AA that doesn't mean your estimate of his range was wrong. It means he was at the high end of the estimate.