Just a bit of background info first I am 18 and this was my 3rd time playing live poker in my local casino. I play in their sunday 1500 guarenteed tournement and in my previous visits had had a great time, I even cashed last week haha.

Anyway yesterday I was playing short stacked with about 15 BB. There was a lady on my table with a large amount of chips, posibly chip leader with 21 left. She had left the table for about half an hour and was just blinding down. A man who had been playing previously but got busted early was sat by our table watching. He seemed like a regular, knew most the staff etc. I folded a hand UTG, it was K6o. The man sat by our table came over and asked the dealer "Can I see those cards?" and the dealer said "After the hand". The hand played out and the dealer showed the cards to the man who was looking over his shoulder. Next hand the same happens. I fold like 104s in the BB in a 3 bet pot and the man says "And those" to the dealer and he gets shown again after the hand.

At this point the lady returns and the man who had seen both of my previous hands starts whispering in her ear using his phone to cover his mouth. Obviously I was like wtf but I didn't want to make a big scene at the table accusing what could be long time regulars of cheating, however I was very uncomfortable playing at this point. I busted a few hands later. I waited around to speak to the floorman who was in a heated discussion with someone else but my cab came before I could speak to him.

So I was just wondering has anyone seen this happen before? What should I have done? I don't think I will be returning to that casino again.

TL,DR: Dealer showed two hands I folded preflop to a man who was not playing, but who was talking to a lady who was playing at the table.

That is complete crap. I would have asked the dealer what he was doing the first time (but understand why you wouldn't have been confident enough to do so as a new player). If it happened again, I would definitely call for the floor.

Having said that, on the positive side, even as the short stack, the info he gleaned about your UTG and BB hands was pretty meaningless, so at least there's that.

When it first happened, you should have said, "Please don't show my cards." If it happens a second time, "Please call the floor." You never should have let it get as far as it did. Only recourse now is to talk to floor at a later time in the hopes it may be corrected for next time.

You're right to be pissed. I wouldn't even say please, just "Don't show my cards again." Take note of the dealer's name and tell the floor about it later.

Sometimes a culture develops around those small buyin tournaments where everyone is just goofing off but the dealer shouldn't get involved in it like that.

Obviously the dealer shouldn't be doing this...

But calling the players cheaters? Do you really think that the guy went and whispered that you fold K6o under the gun and 10 4s to a three bet?

Yeah that's the reason I didn't want to make a big deal out of this situation. What was happening I had never experienced before and I didn't want to get in an argument with what could be some long term regulars over a situation where I was unsure on the ruling.

UGH. Hate hearing things like that.

No, your mucked hands shouldn't be seen by anyone once you muck them. The dealer would be wrong for peeking. Deserving of KITN for showing.

Yes, they took advantage of you as a new to live player. They should be ashamed. Unsure what the floor would do at this point. I would think a good floor is interested in stopping things like that, but I also think that if the floor was good, they wouldn't have dealers who do things like that. You know when you played, and left. Certainly they could go to the footage and verify what you said.

Pretty bad look here for the Dealer and (as a result) the poker room. Definitely talk to the Floor about it, but I wouldn't point out the specific Dealer unless really pressed for it. I would rather the Floor be watching the whole crew than 'maybe' say something to a long-time Dealer who might not care anyway. You will have to be very certain as to who the Dealer is since you aren't 'reporting' this on the day of.

On a lessor note, a $1500 'daily' really isn't that big a deal for some rooms, but for a new Player like yourself it's may be a 'significant' step into the poker world and the Dealer/Floor/Room should respect the game from your perspective as well. GL

Slightly different scenario, but I see this in cash games more often than I'd like. Regardless if they're involved in the hand or not, player at the table asks to see cards of the winning (or mucked losing) hand and oftentimes dealer obliges. Drives me nuts.

Is this a cut & dry no-no so to speak, or is this room dependent? My understanding is this is only okay if you suspect collusion, but that is never the case in these scenarios.

Are we absolutely sure it wasn't the lady's cards being shown to her friend/husband? Seems like the obvious scenario as described, though it also seems pretty bar league/home game action that I don't expect to see in the casino.

I Want To See That Hand (IWTSTH) is for cards belonging to a player that has called all the bets, and is mucked instead of shown down. Room rules vary, and many people believe it's to prevent collusion, but that may not 100% be the case. When allowed, it's only players dealt in at the table that can ask (actually unsure if a player with a missed blind or waiting to post can ask.) Sometimes only players that were in the hand at least up to a certain point.



Not even close to this case. This player folded pre-flop. Nobody in this case is entitled to see the cards, absent an absurd hypothetical scenario where the floor would like to see them.

Apparently there are rooms where every player at the table can always ask to see all hands that went to showdown. I don’t think I have ever played in one of those rooms though. The only reason I can come up with to handle it like that would be because that’s the way it is on PokerStars?

Other than that, the dealer should ask the player why he wants to see that hand and go from there.

AVLuke, you are very new and I want to give you some advice: come to this casino poker forum every day and read all the posts. You will eventually learn about all the crazy stuff that can happen playing live poker, and you’ll learn what to do and how to handle
Yourself in unusual situations that involve the rules. This will make you much more comfortable at the table and make you a better player.

there is no way my cards would be retrievable for the 2nd attempt after that awful dealer showed my 1st mucked hand.

my rage would be indescribable if this was done to me, i very much doubt that ****ty reg would even TRY a 2nd attempt again lol.

Id rather be slowrolled, i always laugh those off and occasionally get a revenge pot (a slowroll on the slowroller)

ill just leave it at that. **** poker room regs.

If your talking about hands at showdown this would be room dependent. If a player bets and everyone else folds the hand should never be shown by the dealer (unless the player shows it).

Greatly appreciate all the responses. From what I've seen, it generally falls into psandman's scenario... person mucks to a river bet and then wants to see the winning hand w/o calling. Similar to OP, seems like it's usually regs who are buddy-buddy with the dealers so the dealers seem to have no problem freely flipping over cards.

BigBlue -- If I'm understanding your response correctly, sounds like it's okay etiquette-wise for the winning player at showdown to request to see a mucked hand if said player called bet and then mucked?

I think there is some terminology misunderstanding. Maybe I'm part of it.

My understanding:

Showdown occurs at the end of a hand when at least 2 players have made/called all bets. At showdown, all hands that reached showdown can be requested by players at the table (IWTSTH).

If a hand doesn't reach showdown, nobody has a right to see any cards from that hand.
Nobody can ask to see cards that were folded. Folding is not calling a bet and releasing your cards to the dealer to be put into the muck.

RE: IWTSTH -- Many threads and discussions. Short version. Don't ask to see mucked hands at showdown.

Yeah that was the definitly the big problem for me, I was in a completly new situation and had no idea how to handle myself or the situation so I suppose I just let myself get walked over. After reading a lot of the replies here I know I should've stood up for myself but casinos can be intimidating places especially when you are new like me haha.

Was 100% my cards. We had just come off a break so I was nice and fresh. The dealer put my cards to the top of the muck and any other mucked cards went to the bottom. This happened both times. I was just sat there like wtf is going on? Is this normal? As I have found out from this post it is definitley not normal.

From my limited experience with this card room, a few of people are very buddy-buddy with dealers, sometimes leaving the the table to go on breaks with them etc.

So we are clear this strikes me as very unusual. I have never seen a person was not even in the game ask a dealer to see cards. Much less have the dealer actually show them.

This is not something I have even heard of happening before this post.

Yup in the cab on the way home I was searching around and could not find anything like this at all on the internet. There are usually people sitting watching in the card room but never getting involved with the table, maybe only to say hello to a friend. It was a really strange spot to be in, I should've stood up for my self. Hindsight is 20/20 haha.

I hear ya... never something I ask to see. Just gotten a few weird (offended?) looks from dealers when they were about to flip my cards and I told them not to. Always thought it was ridiculous they'd freely open hands when asked so didn't want to be in the wrong here.

Last week at a tournament. Shove, reshove, third guy (let's call him X) hems and haws and then folds. Showdown and there's a T on the board. X claims to his neighbor that he folded TT (which was better than either of the other players' holdings and would have won the hand even without making a set)
Other guy doesn't believe him.
While dealer is shoving the chips to the winner X grabs his hand on top of the muck and shows.
Other guy at the table calls the floorman over and complains. X gets a three hands suspension and warned that he will be banned from tournament if he does it again.

Any mucked hands are off limits. You should have called the floor on the first occurence IMO. At the very least the dealer should have asked you if it was OK to show your cards (which still would sound extremely weird to me).

I remember all of the times I have raised my voice at a dealer, and one of those times was at a Foxwoods dealer who showed the mucked hand of another player when there wasn’t a showdown. The dealer looked at me like he had no clue why it was wrong.

In this spot, there wouldn’t have been a second time. The floor would have been called to correct the dealer’s behavior immediately.