Hey Guys,

Decided to join the forums because we had an interesting debacle at my local homegame. Some background, this is somewhere in the caribbean, and the game being played was comparable to a 1/3usd NLH game.

The action isn't necessarily relevant but here's the gist of it.
I was in the BB, end up playing heads up against somewhat of a reg.
BB: Ah2d
Reg: 8h6h
Flatcalled pre flop (Pot 6usd)
Flop: Ad 2h 5h
BB: checks
Reg: Bets 10usd
BB: Calls
Turn: Ad 2h 5h 7d
BB: Bets 15usd
Reg: Calls
River: Ad 2h 5h 7d 9h
BB: Checks
Reg: Bets 35usd

I was thinking the hand over and the reg, known for very poor etiquette,
(slow rolling, debatable angle shooting, and rude table talk) is talking to me
saying out loud how i should call if i have a straight cause then he loses.

My head was down while he was talking as i was taking time to think, this was for no longer than 30 seconds. After which i hear someone ask "did you fold". Thinking they were talking to me so i look up.

I see his hand over the betting line, which he apparently threw there by accident (because he always behaves disorderly, his cards were not there before). I look up to him and the dealer says to him that his hand is dead. Takes my cards and hands me the pot.
She pulls his cards towards the muck but not before he takes them back, to argue how he could fold revealing his flush when the action wasnt even on him. (My hand was never revealed)

He starts the argue with the dealer and with the floor manager on the ruling.
During all of this i basically had not said a word.

Again; i'm not saying this is a good ruling, nor that it is bad.
Perhaps if this was against a civilized player i might gotten involved to let us
just play it out. But because of his poor etiquette i was not inclined to do anything.

Eventually, the host gave him the amount of the pot out of pocket.
Which obviously calmed him down. I kept the stack. Before the night was over he had gone broke and left. I ended up playing until the end, i was up, even without that pot. And gave it back to the host before i left.

What are your thoughts.....

sounds like the dealer jumped the gun and the player's hand should have been live.

Obviously house rules apply... But I think the best rule is he can keep his hand. However if the dealer mucks his cards because he is being a jackass and throwing them around he doesn't get to complain about it.

I don't see how a dealer can muck a hand that's protected. If it's not protected, it's probably your own fault.

Cards we're unprotected, not being touched by his hands, over the betting line, close to touching his last betting chips (that we're over the line).

A 'floor manager' at a home game? Maybe just the 'host'? Sounds pretty organized .. anyway ..

Even when you have a fish/whale Player there is a line in the behavior sand that must be kept. The Dealer in this case was probably a bit quick, but the Player's cards were still identifiable and normally still live. It's possible that at this table that is a dead hand, so be it if so!

I think the manager handled it fine by giving the Player house money to mend the 'wrong'. I think our OP also was fine by giving the funds back to the house at the end of the night as well.

There is no right or wrong is these spots, only a choice by the house and Players on how far they are willing to take the spot. Personally I don't like the karma of taking in chips on a technicality like this but I'm not going to argue with someone who chooses to keep them either. PS

Thanks for the input.

To provide more background. Local casino's here do not organize poker tournaments or cashgames. Hence one of our local, lets say connoisseur's, together with a casino haven taken the initiative to start a table in a partnership. He's the host/floormanager i was referring to.

If it’s one of those weird places with a house rule that states cards over the betting line are dead, I don’t see a problem with that ruling.

I see lots of problems with that house rule though, but that’s not the question here.

Can't speak for all rooms, but the two places where I play that strictly enforce the betting line make it clear that this is a betting line, not a mucking line. Your cards being in front of that line mean nothing. Now, if they are in front of the line unprotected, and get mucked accidentally, you have no recourse, but placing them in front of the line does not autokill the hand.

Now, discarding cards forward when facing action would be seen as a discard, but it does not sound like the player in this hand was facing action.

In the rooms I play, if his cards were identifiable, he was not facing action, and he had made no declaration, his cards would not be killed for being across the betting line. Room rules may vary, of course.

First, his hand should have been live and second... I would have been thankful to see I was beat and able to save 35usd and let him have the pot. I would never take the pot in that situation.

C/r flop or turn