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Old 08-20-2010, 05:00 PM   #1
secpoker
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Dealer with mechanic's grip?

One of the dealers at my local charity uses the mechanic's grip when he deals. I've been playing there for a while and finally remarked on it casually after some discussion on his part about trying to give out Aces. I suspect that he is capable of manipulating the deck from his remarks about his background, but I don't have any grounds to believe that he has actually done so.

Does this grip alone make you suspicious? I have no experience in deck manipulation myself, but I've always been a bit concerned about charity room security.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:05 PM   #2
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

No. Looks like how I hold a deck.

Love how that link contradicts itself.
"Use of this grip often portrays the handler as a cheat or someone with above average ability at manipulating cards; for this reason it is rarely used by professional dealers. A mechanic is a card sharp who uses the Mechanic's Grip or other sleight of hand tricks to cheat at cards, often to cheat other players out of their money.
The fact that a dealer holds the cards in a Mechanic's Grip usually should not be the sole consideration when deciding to accuse a dealer of cheating, because many honest dealers hold the deck in this fashion. It is a widely-used method of holding the deck even amongst dealers who are not card sharps and are not cheating."
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:06 PM   #3
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

offer him 90% of winnings, see if he deals you aces
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:16 PM   #4
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

I should have searched first. Some threads:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/24...=mechanic+grip

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...=mechanic+grip

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...=mechanic+grip

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/24...=mechanic+grip

Also, they rotate the dealers something like every 20 minutes anyway...
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:21 PM   #5
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

It's poor form, but it's likely that many dealers in places like that may not have had proper training. I notice it right away when I see it and it's a good sign the dealer probably has a few sloppy habits.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:38 PM   #6
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

This is how you're supposed to hold the deck of cards.

What other method would you prefer?
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:42 PM   #7
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
This is how you're supposed to hold the deck of cards.

What other method would you prefer?
I believe it's the fact that the index finger is in front of the deck rather than on the side with the rest.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:43 PM   #8
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Yeah. There are versions of that grip I'd be more concerned about, esp where the middle finger is also more forward, pinky in the back type of thing. Standard mechanics grip probably feels natural to half the people who pick up a deck.

Was just handling some cards here (been a while), it feels pretty awkward to not have all four fingers on the long side epsecially when pushing cards with my thumb. Forefinger bracing toward the underside and side of the deck, card rolling lightly over the middle finger. When just holding them and not pitching cards I can see it maybe.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:46 PM   #9
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Think Rounders made everyone paranoid about this fwiw
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:53 PM   #10
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gonso View Post
Think Rounders made everyone paranoid about this fwiw
FWIW, I have never seen Rounders.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:55 PM   #11
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Pretty good movie
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:05 PM   #12
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

I keep my index finger on top to prevent cards from slipping forward. Also, I have huge hands.

I'd be more concerned with things like rolling the deck, peeling cards from the back rather than sliding them off the side, and covering the deck with the other hand.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:13 PM   #13
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
I keep my index finger on top to prevent cards from slipping forward. Also, I have huge hands.

I'd be more concerned with things like rolling the deck, peeling cards from the back rather than sliding them off the side, and covering the deck with the other hand.
Spot-on, as usual -- especially the part about dealers who consistently roll the deck. A finger in front of the deck simply makes the grip more stable (which is good), whereas rolling the deck upside down hides the top card and allows for a top-peek.


q/q
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:12 PM   #14
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
This is how you're supposed to hold the deck of cards.

What other method would you prefer?
This. Not really sure why you wouldn't use it.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:48 PM   #15
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gonso View Post
It's poor form, but it's likely that many dealers in places like that may not have had proper training. I notice it right away when I see it and it's a good sign the dealer probably has a few sloppy habits.
I Disagree, I use the mechanics grip because it is a much "safer" grip and it is in fact more natural to hold the deck in that manner.
I have seen to many occasions where the top of the stub slides off the top of the deck because the dealer squezzed a bit to hard or the hand holding the deck was accidentally jarred.
With a mechanics grip those mishaps are greatly reduced or eliminated.( the index fiinger in front locks the stub in).
Dont make assumptions about a dealers competence based on his grip, watch a little closer before you make determination.

that said, does "your" dealer use a cut card? Do you ever hear somewhat "odd" clicking or snap when they are dealing?
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:55 PM   #16
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

That's a standard dealers grip.
Quote:
many honest dealers hold the deck in this fashion.
It is a widely-used method of holding the deck even
amongst dealers who are not card sharps and are not cheating.
If you see a left handed dealer with his thumb along side of
the deck instead of on top of it he may be peeking at the next card.
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:07 PM   #17
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

If I was a "mechanic" I would not be dealing in a charity event in Michigan.

I would not discuss skills I have that allow me to serve up aces on demand.

I would be working some high roler underground game with a big, ugly, well armed, SOB bouncer whom had my back.

But that's just how I would roll if I wanted to be a card cheat.

And I hold my deck like that.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:06 PM   #18
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Sometimes I hold my deck with my off-hand. I call it the "Stranger's Grip".
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:41 PM   #19
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
Sometimes I hold my deck with my off-hand. I call it the "Stranger's Grip".
Make sure you sit on that hand until it goes numb first.
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Old 08-21-2010, 01:34 AM   #20
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by secpoker View Post
Does this grip alone make you suspicious? I have no experience in deck manipulation myself, but I've always been a bit concerned about charity room security.
In and of that alone no. But I always watch the dealer. There are other things that would have to be added before I was too worried. As several of the dealers on this board have already said, its too common these days to be too big of a concern by its self.

One to watch for, but you will never see if he is truly skilled, is dealing seconds, thirds, etc. The dealer should push the top card off and the pitching hand should pinch the card as it comes off and pitch it, only touching that top card as it comes off the deck. If the pitching hand is always going to the top of the deck he could be dealing seconds. When a dealer is dealing anything other than the top card, the thumb has two motions, back then forward with their thumb. Beginners and those that just suck at it, have to pick the card off with the pitching hand as the second card is exposed, those that are skilled can push the second card out with that back then forward motion. The good ones are so fast you will only be truly able to see it with slow-motion video/film.
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Old 08-21-2010, 04:08 AM   #21
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

In our .25-$1 five card draw game, a friend once pointed out to me that (without even remotely accusing me of cheating) that I was using this grip. It didn't make a difference in this game, but I've avoided using it since, so as to stay in practice for games where it could stir up paranoia.

I do agree that it's a grip that comes naturally, and as the Wikipedia article says, on its own it's not evidence of cheating.
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Old 08-21-2010, 04:29 AM   #22
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Kinda funny, I was working on my shuffling and dealing technique last night. I've had no formal training and only deal in home games or playing speed or Uno or other games, and this is how I've always held a deck. Feels natural to me.

Maybe I'll take more care and be more perceptive to others from now on, but unless something really suspicious is going on I don't see the problem.

He's definitely not cheating in a charity event. At least I wouldn't see the point.
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Old 08-21-2010, 04:44 AM   #23
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

So what's the problem with this grip? Why are people afraid of it?
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Old 08-21-2010, 05:07 AM   #24
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
So what's the problem with this grip? Why are people afraid of it?
Ignorance. Oh that and lol it was a line in a movie about pokerz lol omg.
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Old 08-21-2010, 08:14 AM   #25
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Re: Dealer with mechanic's grip?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
Sometimes I hold my deck with my off-hand. I call it the "Stranger's Grip".
Quote:
Originally Posted by adaminmissouri View Post
Make sure you sit on that hand until it goes numb first.
ahahhahaha
comedic genius ITT
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