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Dealer error - any proof needed? Dealer error - any proof needed?

11-15-2018 , 08:42 PM
So this happened recently and I'm wondering if this is standard in all card rooms.

I decide to cash out at the end of the night, had a rough idea of my stack - It's standard procedure to color up chips at the table as you have to buy chips at the table.

The dealer reaches over and grabs my chips, then colors them up.

Insert error; Player next to me says he grabbed his chips also and his are mixed up with mine.

The floor gets called and they decide to check cameras.
The floor then rule I had XYZ and player A had XYZ.

I'm sure I had more and player A had less, is there anything I can do here?
Discussing with the player next time I saw him, he also agrees he didn't think he had the amount he was given.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-15-2018 , 09:11 PM
The only thing anyone can do is check the cameras. Unfortunately it's a mistake that probably won't be corrected with 100% accuracy because it's hard to distinguish height of bigger stacks. When it's all said and done if you both agree as to the amounts then he can compensate you. Otherwise it's tough luck.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-15-2018 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocktail
So this happened recently and I'm wondering if this is standard in all card rooms.

I decide to cash out at the end of the night, had a rough idea of my stack - It's standard procedure to color up chips at the table as you have to buy chips at the table.

The dealer reaches over and grabs my chips, then colors them up.

Insert error; Player next to me says he grabbed his chips also and his are mixed up with mine.

The floor gets called and they decide to check cameras.
The floor then rule I had XYZ and player A had XYZ.

I'm sure I had more and player A had less, is there anything I can do here?
Discussing with the player next time I saw him, he also agrees he didn't think he had the amount he was given.
Count your own stack before letying the dealer touch it. Tell him the amount.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-15-2018 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Tom
The only thing anyone can do is check the cameras. Unfortunately it's a mistake that probably won't be corrected with 100% accuracy because it's hard to distinguish height of bigger stacks. When it's all said and done if you both agree as to the amounts then he can compensate you. Otherwise it's tough luck.
Would disagree here. IME, assuming the amounts are relatively low, most casinos would eat a few bucks here if OP complained loudly enough to a floor. It's worth the minor dinner comp to avoid OP feeling slighted. Now, this also depends heavily on the result of the surveillance review. If it's clear who got how much, they are less likely to budge, but if the floor gets back just some vague estimates (which is going to be the result a lot here) you've got a better chance.

At the end of the day, though. OP, it's your money. Pay more attention. Depending on the circumstances, you may get compensated in a minor comp, but you also may not. The best way to not get screwed over here is to protect yourself.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-15-2018 , 10:20 PM
To me a dinner comp is worth at most $0.10 on the $1. And will never be equal to my hard won dollars. House via dealer screwed up and needs to due more than comp dinner to make it right. I bet with house money they make more effort.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-15-2018 , 10:34 PM
Did you speak up and tell the floor you thought you had more when he came back with the totals? Or did you just say nothing, accept the amount, and then ask the other player the next time you saw him? Because if you said nothing, and then hours or a day later you think you had more, than I doubt any room would comp you anything. If you objected a the time, that's one thing. Because they could question the other player at the time and you two could come to an agreement. But if you accepted the amount at the time, I'd be shocked if a room comped you anything.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-15-2018 , 10:52 PM
I only color up known amounts ($100 stacks of $5 chips, etc.) with dealers.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Had2Call
Did you speak up and tell the floor you thought you had more when he came back with the totals? Or did you just say nothing, accept the amount, and then ask the other player the next time you saw him? Because if you said nothing, and then hours or a day later you think you had more, than I doubt any room would comp you anything. If you objected a the time, that's one thing. Because they could question the other player at the time and you two could come to an agreement. But if you accepted the amount at the time, I'd be shocked if a room comped you anything.
I didn't accept the total at the time, I said I had more chips (approx $150 give or take $10) and that I wasn't happy with the decision. They said they were certain of stacks and I disagreed, they told me that there was nothing further I could do and I had to accept the amount given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
Count your own stack before letying the dealer touch it. Tell him the amount.
When I said roughly, I counted my even stacks and bigger denomination chips ($25's, $100's). I'm a pretty meticulous player and I'll always know my stack to the nearest $50 anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora Tom
The only thing anyone can do is check the cameras. Unfortunately it's a mistake that probably won't be corrected with 100% accuracy because it's hard to distinguish height of bigger stacks. When it's all said and done if you both agree as to the amounts then he can compensate you. Otherwise it's tough luck.
Well I put my chips forward (to approximately the bet line on the average table), and they colored them up and was about to hand them to me when player A said something. His chips must've been in the vicinity I'm really uncertain how it happened. My room doesn't have chip trays so not coloring up really isn't a possibility.

I'm just pretty outraged about the whole thing, they can't show me the video footage for safety purposes and I'm suppose to just take them at there word? I can hand over my chips and get less back?
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocktail
I didn't accept the total at the time, I said I had more chips (approx $150 give or take $10) and that I wasn't happy with the decision. They said they were certain of stacks and I disagreed, they told me that there was nothing further I could do and I had to accept the amount given
Ok, thanks. So the other player later told you he thought he had less, but at the time he didn't say that and just took the wrong amount?

Also, just for curiosity as I'm having a hard time picturing how this went down, what was the total (give or take as you say) that you pushed forward, and what denominations were they? I'm trying to picture if you had multiple stacks of red, and the dealer grabbed one or two extra stacks of red from player 2, or were you coloring up green to black, and he grabbed extra green. The amount you state it was off (around 150) seems so large that it's hard to imagine how it occurred and how the camera could not tell the difference. It's one thing for a camera to not be able to tell if a stack has 90 or 100 in it, but it's a whole other thing for them to get the number of stacks a player had off by one or two stacks. So I'm trying to get a feel for how large your stack and the other players stack were.
Thanks again
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Had2Call
Ok, thanks. So the other player later told you he thought he had less, but at the time he didn't say that and just took the wrong amount?

Also, just for curiosity as I'm having a hard time picturing how this went down, what was the total (give or take as you say) that you pushed forward, and what denominations were they? I'm trying to picture if you had multiple stacks of red, and the dealer grabbed one or two extra stacks of red from player 2, or were you coloring up green to black, and he grabbed extra green. The amount you state it was off (around 150) seems so large that it's hard to imagine how it occurred and how the camera could not tell the difference. It's one thing for a camera to not be able to tell if a stack has 90 or 100 in it, but it's a whole other thing for them to get the number of stacks a player had off by one or two stacks. So I'm trying to get a feel for how large your stack and the other players stack were.
Thanks again
He didn't say anything, he still isn't certain he just thought he had less but had no actual idea as to the amount - He's no a regular and was just in for a gamble.

Either way I doubt many players would speak up and say "Don't give me this free money" even if it's the ethical thing to do.

I had about $1950, 3 stacks of red, a stack of greens, a pile of 11 blacks at the front of my stack along with almost a stack of blue and 6 lose red chips ontop of my stack.

My opponent had a dirty stack of greens, blacks and red, but probably less than 20 chips total and I believe he should of had about $500 (but who in the hell know's to be honest). The colour of the greens and blacks ($25,$100) are pretty difficult to decipher when next to each other being a darker green and not bright green.

I didn't pay much attention to the dealer cutting out the chips, as I just always check it once they are cut out, but how he didn't find the pile of mixed chips weird and mixed them in is beyond me, nor how he grabbed them in originally.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 03:31 AM
From what you've described, it doesn't sound like the casino is going to do anything else in regards to this matter. Could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure casinos rarely, if ever, will let a patron view security footage "for security reasons."

At this point the best thing I can recommend would be contacting the gaming commission in charge of this casino and speak with them about it to file an investigation into the issue. Unsure how far you'll get with them, but they should hopefully put a little more effort into it than casino security did.

Also, tell this place to get some chip racks. That's unbelievable a card room has no racks. Guess the $2-300 it'd cost to provide racks for their room would put them out of business?
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 04:11 AM
Could've all been avoided had the dealer told the clown next to you not to barber poll his blacks with greens and reds. But I suppose expecting that of a dealer who can't perform a simple color up is asking a lot. This is an odd situation, but once surveillance is called that is basically the final say, seems like you are SOL here.

Going forward, keep your black chips the hell away from the dealer when doing color ups. Not sure why the dealer would even be grabbing them unless they have purple chips in their rack? Also, pay close attention during color ups to make sure you get back what you gave them. Or if you want, go against the rooms procedure and tell the dealer you don't do color ups anymore after you got screwed in the past. It's your chips, let the cage count it and make sure they are right.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 06:13 AM
I can't understand how you could hand someone your money (or chips) without already knowing to the penny how much you are handing them.

Stop expecting competence. It's far better to be prepared for, and to protect yourself from, INcompetence.

It's not hard, and takes almost no effort.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 08:07 AM
Just scanning a bit here ...
1) This is the same as protecting your cards before a pot is pushed. Errors can, and will, happen. I've been there .. tired .. end of the night .. long session, ready to go .. things can happen.

2) Did the table break? Was the other guy coloring up at the same time? I thought I saw you post that you had pushed your chips forward .. How could his have been anywhere close to stacks pushed forward?

3) Did you request 'assistance' from the other Player night of? Mixed stack, gambler? He doesn't sound like the type to fess up on the spot without some prying.

4) Prob way too late at this point in time to get anything out of the casino. They did go through some effort and gave you their conclusion. Gaming would be the next step but good luck on this type of issue.

5) At this point in time your only recourse would be to get some cash from the other Player. But even with his comments I'm not expecting too much. GL
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11-16-2018 , 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny


Stop expecting competence.

This.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Prob way too late at this point in time to get anything out of the casino.
I'm going to disagree with this (depending). There is basically one thing you can do and this will depend on what you mean by "this happened recently". You can go there and ask for a manager or director that would be in charge of the table games and/or poker department. Tell them your story and ask them to look into it. I know at my casino when something like this happens, they will save the video for me just in case I want to see it later because of a dispute or for disciplinary reasons. The floor guy would not have be allowed to see the video so he would be relying on the surveillance agent to tell him the amounts and, from experience, I have found that those guys are not the most competent when it comes to counting chips from video, especially at a poker game. If they still have the video there is a chance that someone higher up can take a look and may see that you were in fact shorted and they would then be obligated to make it right. If the video is gone, you are 100% SOL and even a gaming commission won't be able to help you.
Dealer error - any proof needed? Quote
11-16-2018 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny
I can't understand how you could hand someone your money (or chips) without already knowing to the penny how much you are handing them.

Stop expecting competence. It's far better to be prepared for, and to protect yourself from, INcompetence.

It's not hard, and takes almost no effort.
I understand your point of view, but me knowing exactly my stack or my stack within 20 makes no difference in the matter? What is the difference between me telling them I had XYZ give or take a tenner, or exactly XYZ. I explained my stacks to the supervisor dealing with the issue and seemed happy with my description - whilst the other player had no idea.

As to how this happened I'm still baffled, I have absolutely no clue how the dealer mixed in the chips, too this day that is the most baffling thing about this all. We are talking 12 inches minimum between my chips and his at the beginning of the incident.
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