Quote:
Originally Posted by DuMaa
jk59876,
John here, Poker Manager at Golden Gates.
The Supervisor called Surveillance to see what happened and they said that your opponent had the only live hand at showdown and that your cards were buried in the muck, so he made his decision based on that fact.
Can surveillance explain why the only live hand never put any chips into the pot? Can they confirm that OP's hand went into the muck AFTER being pushed the pot? Sorry, I'm not buying this as a good decision.
Quote:
Colorado has a highly regulated gaming industry. Poker rules in CO are statute (as are all gaming rules here) - they are the law, not a recommendation or a guideline. Here’s a portion of the law regarding showdown
[I]“The following provisions govern showdown: ...
We were not at showdown yet IMO. The dealer confirmed that the opponent folded and was never corrected by the opponent. The dealer pushed the pot to OP and was not stopped by the opponent until AFTER OP's cards were in the muck.
Quote:
From my understanding of this situation, you never tabled your hand and it was irretrievably mixed into the muck by the dealer without objection, otherwise you would have asked to retrieve them.
Why would he object? He was awarded the pot and thought he won the hand. The opponent is the one who failed to object in a timely manner here.
Quote:
From my experience with the CO Division of Gaming and the statements from the other players at the table, they would have agreed with the Floor Supervisor’s ruling here, following the letter of the law.
I disagree. If they heard the same version that we heard here, they would not expect OP to have acted any differently.
Quote:
I’m not trying to jam it up your butt here - I know it sucks, and it kills me to award any pot to anything but the best hand. And it sounds like you legitimately had the best hand, but it was never tabled. We must follow the law here and it appears to me that the ruling made was appropriate, although not the ideal “poker ruling”. CO is a unique place, that’s for sure. In other jurisdictions, maybe the call would have gone another way.
This situation did not bust you out of the tournament. The Floor Supervisor recommended giving you some cash due to the extraordinary circumstances, which I approved, but you refused that offer. You also called the poker room 2 or 3 times in the days after to discuss it but declined when you were offered to be transferred directly to me.
I apologize that this happened to you. Feel free to come talk to me the next time you’re in the room or call me and we can talk about it further if you wish. My door is always open to discuss stuff with you guys. Just ask.
You have your supervisor's back here and I get that. I can see exactly why he made this decision and I wouldn't fault him for it one bit because you can easily find a way to make this seem like it was the correct decision, but it was not (maybe, see below). You did the right thing in trying to make it right with OP, but instead of making it right, lets call it offering our apologies for the dealer's error. Should he get his buy in back? No, but something like what was offered seems reasonable. This was a super difficult spot and by no means an easy decision to get right and I don't wish for any supervisor to be in that spot. He made a decision that he thought was right and I imagine many a good suit would make the same decision. I don't fault him for getting it wrong. Here's the (maybe) part: Ultimately I would like to see the video myself to see how fast the dealer mucks OP's cards after/before/during pushing him the pot. That matters because this is when the opponent should be speaking up. I can see him not realizing there was a problem until the pot is pushed but he should literally be waiting for OP to show his hand so he should easily be able to stop the dealer from pushing the pot before it's too late. The ONLY WAY your supervisor's decision was correct is if the dealer mucks OP's hand before pushing the pot IMO.
The error made here was by the dealer who failed to muck the opponents hand when he thought it was folded. If that happens, this thread doesn't exist. Oh well, we all make mistakes and hopefully he learned from this one.
Not trying to bust your balls, but as the story is told here, this is my opinion.