This situation came up the other day in a Fixed Limit HE game at the Last Frontier Casino in La Center, WA.

Button is on Mary. The player who was supposed to be the SB as well as the player who was supposed to be the BB both get up and leave the game (they went to different games, but that's immaterial).

Art is the next player clockwise to Mary. Art is asked to post the BB.

Because of the Forward Moving Button Rule, Art also gets the button. Brad is next to Art and is asked to put out a BB as well. Two Big Blinds and Art has the button.

Got it so far?

Next hand, button moves to Brad.

Art puts out a SB, Brad puts out a SB and has the button. Next player in line (Cynthia) puts out a BB.

So the button is on Brad. Art is a SB and he is *behind* the button.

This seems really weird.

Is the above the correct protocol?

Short answer: yes. And the blind is live meaning if it limps to him he can fold and surrender his two chips, complete the blind up to the bb, or raise to the normal raise using the sb as his own money.

It’s a little weird, but remember that there are casinos where you can miss the sb and only owe the sb, meaning you can post the sb behind the button.

The rule of forward moving button is that everyone always owes exactly one bb and one sb, and the button always occupies the next available spot and cannot be “frozen” in place or move to an empty seat. Using those two rules, you can reconstruct this situation and see why it was handled correctly.

The only thing I see is that there should've been 3 BB in the 'first' hand or the table will never catch up to normal play.

1) Art (B) pays BB .. Brad pays BB (from SB spot) and Cynthia pays BB (from BB spot)

2) Art pays SB (CO) .. Brad pays SB (B) .. Cynthia pays SB (SB) .. next Player pays BB

3) Cynthia B .. Next Player SB .. Next Next Player BB and the table is back on track .. GL

I don't understand what's happening here.

Anyways, Art and Brad post a big blind. Next hand, Art gets the button and posts the small blind on the button. Brad posts his small blind and Cynthia posts her big. On the next hand, everything is back to normal.

Starting over, if for some reason the small blind and big blind leave and Mary (on the button) also leaves, the button moves to Art. Art posts a dead small blind and a big blind on the button. Brad posts a big blind. Cynthia posts a big blind.

Next hand, button moves to Brad. Brad posts small on the button, Cynthia posts a small, and (we'll call him) Richard posts a big blind. Next hand Brad gets the button and everything is fixed.

3 rules can make the Forward Moving Button make sense:

1. Everyone posts a small and a big blind
2. No one posts behind the button
3. There will always be 2 blinds

“2. No one posts behind the button“

This makes no sense to me. Moving button rule has people posting on and behind button frequently.

Not used much but as explained to me…
1. Button must always move forward to the next occupied seat.
2. Whoever is now in BB position or got skipped now posts SB
3. If you posted BB last hand, you post SB

Number 3 is incorrect also; sometimes there are more than two blinds.

I think the OP is correct, but it is very confusing, which is one reason I dislike the moving button rule.

It is weird and exciting to me that, as far as I can tell, there is no easily googlable place to find a concise description of the FMB rules online. I know a number of rooms (in OK and that area?) use the FMB rule for their cash games, but I guess none of them have anything posted. And other than a 2010 TDA thread about it (woefully janky) I don't see any definitive sources. The best one I found was from stackexchange! https://poker.stackexchange.com/ques...e-in-this-case

Or rather, no accurate one. There are a few out there that are simplistic but "wrong". Including pokerstars! They essentially say "move the button forward, and then the next 2 people are SB and BB regardless of whether any blinds were skipped." That is just moronic. I guess there is a reason that the consensus for tournaments is that you should use the dead button rule.

As others have said, #2 just isn't right, and #3 is only right if you meant "there will always be *at least* 2 blinds". (At least for most implementations of FMB in a cash game, maybe you're referring to the simplified version used by e.g. Stars? But then #1 would be wrong.)

The way I understand it (I have never actually played in a FMB room), the distilled set of FMB rules is:
1- The button always moves forward to the next active player.
2- The two players to the left of the button will always post a blind. They post a SB if they posted a BB last hand. They post a BB if not, and post a SB the following hand.
3- The button and (all) players to the right also post a blind if they have not yet paid both their BB and SB in this round of blinds. If they've already posted a BB, then they post a SB. Otherwise they post a BB, and post a SB the following hand.

This can result in 3 or more blinds in a given hand, but never fewer than 2. Some players may post one or both blinds when on the button, or even in the CO. After this hand and the next, assuming no further player changes, things will be back to normal.

Example: seat 1 BUT, 2 is SB, 3 is BB, 4 is UTG, etc. Both SB and BB bust/leave this hand.
Next hand: always move the button to the next active player, so now 4 is BUT. 5 and 6 have to post blinds. Since neither was BB last hand, both post a BB now. 4 is BUT but did not post BB or SB last hand. He now also posts BB. So you have 3 BB's this hand.
Next hand: 5 is BUT. 6 and 7 have to post blinds. 6 posted BB last hand so he posts SB now. 7 posts BB (as usual). 5 posted BB last hand, so he posts SB on BUT now. 4 posted BB last hand, so he posts SB in CO now. So you have 3 SBs and 1 BB this hand.
Next hand: 6 is BUT, 7 and 8 are blinds as normal.

The FMB method can get screwy when more people depart in multiple consecutive hands, or when things are short handed so that the blind rounds start wrapping around faster than the blinds can catch up, but you can usually figure out what comes next by following the steps above logically.

The benefits of a FMB are that:
* No one gets the advantage of the button 2 or more hands in a row
* There are always at least 2 blinds each hand, promoting action
* Players never have to wait for the button to pass to get (back) into the game

The drawbacks:
* Some hands can have 4 blinds...maybe a little too much action
* Players can get to post one (or sometimes both) blinds live and in position
* Doesn't work well shorthanded or with frequent player changes
* Can be confusing to players more used to standard dead button

The problem is people try to figure out the button first. Figure out the regular blind placement first and go from there.

Next player to get the big blind gets it.
Nest player to get the small blind, if any, gets it.
Button moves to the next eligible player (could be one of the blinds).
Make sure there are two blinds to the left of the button; add a second BB if needed.
On the next hand, players that were a BB post a small blind (one may be behind the button) and the next player to the left posts a BB.
On the had after that it should be sorted.

Again I’d say my post has the only two rules you need

1) everyone always owes one bb and one sb in order
2) The button always occupies the next available seat

It’s actually so simple that people end up overthinking it. Of course there can be some house wrinkles to it.

Some places don’t allow you to buy the button if someone owes a sb on the button. Same with posting in between.

Almost everywhere though allows you to “move into” a sb bb bb or a bb bb situation though so that’s something to keep in mind for seat changes and the like.

I worked at a FMB casino and it’s honestly not as confusing as people who have never worked at/played at such a casino make it out to be. Most LA casinos have this rule.