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Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option

05-14-2023 , 03:32 PM
I knew some very old school dealers in LA that still do this. But you know they know it’s wrong because they never do it in high stakes games. So it’s one of those things that some dealers do because they think it “speeds up the game”.

I think it’s annoying personally when I see dealers do it. But if this is the biggest flaw in their procedure it’s not a big deal. Akin to announcing every check and call (another non-standard old school procedure).
Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option Quote
05-14-2023 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkraisdraw
It’s free bar poker, right? Who cares if the guy isn’t doing 100% technically correct dealing. We’ve all been taught this “technique” in dealer school. And explained why it’s wrong. But he is properly applying the technique (bringing bets in once the pot is right ie everyone has the same amount of money in front of them). The person yelling at him is a jerk and OOL.

Look OP if you find the arguments in this thread compelling, then change the way you do things. But you’re not technically “wrong”, you’re just using a procedure that is out of favor.
I agree that the player is a jerk and should not yell at the dealer. But I don’t see where that was claimed in OP.

Little else do I agree with but much of what you write self contradicts. OP should realize that even though he has seen dealers do it, that “technique “ is wrong. Certainly the level of professionalism in dealing may be lower in a free bar tournament but those dealers should still be treated with respect. They should also strive to improve wh3n an error in procedure is pointed out.

The way OP was originally corrected may be wrong, but OP response should have been to find out if the technique was correct. Now that he “knows” it isn’t he should strive to correct his practice. Not to placate the villain but just to improve skills.
Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option Quote
05-14-2023 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKQJ10
If your rationale for posting this thread is to evoke sympathy and/or a sort of AITA line check, good. You have my sympathy. Patrons shouldn't berate dealers and rarely should even give any feedback at the table. Nothing you did deserves that response.

If your additional reason for posting is to enquire about the standard way to handle this situation or to somehow convince us of your good dealing procedure, you've gotten plenty of well informed replies about the standard way to handle the BB. I don't get the sense you're looking for informative replies that disagree with you but maybe I'm wrong.
I do appreciate the replies that essentially conclude I should leave the pot alone. I've updated my technique
Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option Quote
05-15-2023 , 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore
I agree that the player is a jerk and should not yell at the dealer. But I don’t see where that was claimed in OP.

Little else do I agree with but much of what you write self contradicts. OP should realize that even though he has seen dealers do it, that “technique “ is wrong. Certainly the level of professionalism in dealing may be lower in a free bar tournament but those dealers should still be treated with respect. They should also strive to improve wh3n an error in procedure is pointed out.

The way OP was originally corrected may be wrong, but OP response should have been to find out if the technique was correct. Now that he “knows” it isn’t he should strive to correct his practice. Not to placate the villain but just to improve skills.
Certainly if he’s cutting his teeth to get a job at a casino, he shouldn’t do it. I agree. It’s a very small error in the grand scheme of things, but it is an error nonetheless.
Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option Quote
05-15-2023 , 04:00 AM
I had a few different responses to this.

First its great that you are trying to speed things up. This is especially true in a tournament where it benefits not only the house but all of the players in the sense that they will play more hands.

Second, I have rarely seen this happen and I have played all over the US and now in Prague. There may be places where it is standard but I think it is not normal. When I have seen it happen the Dealer has always apologized knowing that taking in the limp chips was wrong.

Third and very importantly, the problem with doing this is that the BB may get aggravated because they think that the Dealer thinks they checked and they haven't. Their fear is that the flop is going to be dealt before they have a chance to act and this puts them in a state. They will complain immediately (assuming they are paying attention) but their attitude and demeanor will likely be angry and objectionable (like it was here in this OP)

Fourth and fairly importantly, when this happens if the BB is an angleshooter they can wait for the flop to be dealt and if it doesn't suit a hand that they are OK with raising with they can complain that their turn was skipped (depending on how you ask them and accept answers like if they nod their head and you think the Floor will agree with you when they say that they didn't). It is possible and even likely that they will lose their argument when the Floor gets called over. But then the whole point of it (to speed things up) will go down. And of course if they win the argument you have given them a distinct advantage. Which if they are a really good angleshooter they will already have if they weren't ever going to raise but wanted the other players to think they had a good hand...

Fifth and most importantly, when this has happened when I have played (most recently it happened one time in Prague) and the BB tells the dealer he hasn't checked yet, the dealer has always replaced all of the blinds in front of players who have cards (the last time it happened I told the dealer to do it even though nobody speaks English in Prague and miraculously he did). This is critical for the BB. One of the things about raising in NL is that, assuming the player is good, the raise will be based on the number of callers (as well as position). If the dealer removes the limp bets it makes it difficult for the BB to know how many limpers there have been especially if one or more players (clever anglers perhaps) have their hands over their cards. This would be the main reason I would make it against the rules for dealers in poker rooms to do this.

Sixth (and last) I think your reaction to dealing another time with that player who got angry was a good idea. It will make it easier for them to play and ultimately that has to be the goal for dealers.

Seventh (OK this is last), I actually wouldn't have a problem with it if I was playing and a Dealer was doing it all the time. If I were the BB I would always ask the dealer after he had moved the chips into the pot, how many callers there were (not to slow things down or annoy the dealer but to confirm the count I would have had). It would be an advantage for me against some other players who either would sometimes miscount or just go 3x or 4x because they don't want to have to think about it.

Eighth (really?) what if a number of players had put out like 1,000 chip and change had to be made. So while the BB is thinking about what to do the Dealer is making change all over the table. This would be distracting (and unfair) to the BB. So I guess I would have a problem with it if the Dealer was doing it all the time...
Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option Quote
05-15-2023 , 08:57 AM
Pulling in chips from Players who have folded .. good, reduces confusion over who's left in the pot and potential 'making change' issues when it comes to which chips belong to what Player. The exception being if change is not readily available from the pot and/or the Dealer makes an announcement to the Player of what they are owed while pulling in the chips.

'Making the pot right' (wrong terminology IMO) or pulling in all matched bets in the middle of a betting round .. 'bad' unless prompted to do so by the 'action' Player. Offering a 'free' visual of Pot Odds shouldn't be part of a Dealer's routine. It may also slow the game down if a Player loses track of who has cards. The Dealer is also doing extra work IMO since they have to pull in chips twice in front of Players who choose to continue.

This is a 'top 3' pet peeve for me as a Player and the Dealer will hear about it one way or another. GL
Collecting the pot prior to BB exercising her option Quote
05-15-2023 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKQJ10
If your rationale for posting this thread is to evoke sympathy and/or a sort of AITA line check, good. You have my sympathy. Patrons shouldn't berate dealers and rarely should even give any feedback at the table. Nothing you did deserves that response.

If your additional reason for posting is to enquire about the standard way to handle this situation or to somehow convince us of your good dealing procedure, you've gotten plenty of well informed replies about the standard way to handle the BB. I don't get the sense you're looking for informative replies that disagree with you but maybe I'm wrong.
Just to revisit this thinking. Thanks to all in the thread who've brought info that I was unaware of. While I don't think this qualifies as a full on "mistake," it makes sense to me know why it's discouraged and suboptimal technique. I only did it because I've witnessed many professional dealers in casino settings do the exact same thing. I'm happy for your help and the opportunity to improve.
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