I'll start this off by saying I have never played live in a casino (well I played on a cruise once but they were PokerPro tables)

I've been reading the B&M section a lot lately since I will be heading to AC next month and Vegas in January.

My question is why does everything have to be so difficult playing live?

I mean it seems like you would just announce what you are doing (fold, call, raise to XXX)?

At showdown just show your freaking hand. Is losing a pot where you had the best hand really worth it? I doubt showing your hand everyt ime is giving away a ton of information.

Maybe I am just spoiled by playing online where both hands are shown at showdown and its always clear what the action was. Am I just being naive about live poker?

nothing is difficult. follow your own advice and you should have no problems. but to answer your question, most people are idiots.

Take this view and you'll be fine

Welcome to live poker. Injecting that human element seems to just mess everything up - misdeals, people being jerks, etc.

And yet .... that same human element is what makes live poker great. People play like complete donkeys, you meet some cool people, and funny stuff happens that you'll never see online.

Just a trade off really - you sacrifice efficiency but gain a lot of good stuff.

Sounds like you're more than halfway there to enjoying your first live casino experience. Have a beer for me and remember to straddle at least once, preferably after you've had a few beers.

people are affraid to show their hand at showdown because they are either too affraid to show better players how they play, or embarrased to show how they played a certain hand.

However, just remember one thing... If you call someone's bet on the river, make them show their cards first. Info is info and it also prevents someone from trying not to show if they lose.

Not a big fan of beer but I love some cranberry and vodka.

Yea I will definitely do that. The biggest difference will be not being able to see someone's hand if they call my bet on the river and then muck.

Eurgh, and then procede to argue with each other for x amount of time until the dealer has to interfere explaining rules to the inexperienced player and make him show his bottom pair.

I wouldn't do this simply for piece of mind, it's just so much faster to table your hand.

i agree but sometimes, especially if he's a strong player, a little bit of info is worth a few extra seconds to you and also the other players so they might not mind.

See this is where I have the biggest problem with live poker. To me this is how it should go.

On the river player A bets and player B calls. Player A should now show his cards since he was the last aggressor. If he doesn't want to show then he should have to muck his cards and player B should be allowed to take the pot without showing his cards since A already mucked.

In other words if Player A wants to see what Player B has he should show his hand even if he knows it is no good.

When are you going to be in Atlantic City?

See now. This is already starting to deviate from the "Just show your freaking hand" rule (which I think needs to be inscribed in the walls of every card room in the World). If Player B engages in the Great Showdown Standoff with Player A then the game slows until someone blinks.

Don't backslide. This is how it starts.

Just call and then show your hand. Because if this is true
then the info from seeing someone else's hand shouldn't give you much information either.

Sept 9-10. Also thinking about going to Charlestown WV on the 6th.

I see what you are getting at. So is there anything wrong with the following:

A bets the river with middle pair not sure if its good
B calls
A says you're good and waits for B to table his hand
A then mucks if he has worse or shows if he has better

I like your OP better: Just Show Your Freaking Hand.

Which would go like this:

A bets the river with middle pair not sure if its good
B calls
Both players flip over their cards
Dealer awards pot to winning hand
Life goes on and we get at least 30 hph

I guess I'm starting to understand why it becomes so difficult. If everyone followed the same rules it would be easy, but when you are always tabling your hand and other people are always trying to find a way not to it seems like you are at a disadvantage.

I'll just show my hand every time and see how it goes.

Looking forward to your Trip Reports. I'll be heading to Vegas in September and will post a TR.

Yes, do that. The people you are afraid of giving an advantage to won't get one, because they are terrible. By showing your hand, you may even win some pots that you shouldn't have, because the other bad players will misread the board and fold a winner/chopper.

Bottom line: wait half a second to see if player A will show first, then table your hand confidently, regardless. Don't say anything. Claim your winners, and be gracious with your losers.

There's nothing wrong with that in the least. If you're player B you get very nearly the same amount of info from this as from seeing the hand. When A says "You're good" sees your hand and mucks you can be pretty darn sure he bluffed the river. If you're observing the player and the board texture you can also be pretty sure if he's very likely to have bluffed with a missed draw or complete air. If the guy is bluffing with complete air it really doesn't matter if he had Q4o or J5s does it? A guy who's going to barrel 52o all the way is going to be pretty obvious even if you don't see his hand this time.

The disadvantage of showing while your table mates don't is so minuscule I wouldn't worry about it.

^^ What he said.

Especially if you're good enough to know your table image and switch things up. Last night I played a hand TERRIBLY. I was ashamed to show my stinking Pocket Sevens at Showdown. But I did without hesitation. And it seemed to loosen the table up and give me a ton of action which led to a profitable session.

actually for a new player, I would suggest always show your hand. Just to make sure you are not geting angled by someone saying they have a hand that they don't, etc. nothing wrong with that at low stakes.

edit: i mean always Table (there is a difference between show and table)

You're doing it again.

It's not so bad, most of what you read here is over-dramatized, IMO. I've been playing almost exclusively live for 5 years, patience and not tilting will be your keys to keeping it simple.

Because too many people are idiots. I don't care if that's cynical, it's also fact. Just keep in mind that people who pull this crap are almost always the biggest donkeys at your table. They're the ones who just have no clue what they're doing, so you should be happy to have them at your table, because frankly, they're giving you WAY more info and chips by playing dumb poker than by trying to hide tells or their hands.