Let's check the trust factor ...

Person leans into a PLO pot and grabs up the Bennys.
Casino Security fails to stop them in the building.
Tribal Police fails to stop them in the parking lot and loses them a few miles down the road.
State Police spot the guy and he crashes into guard rails rolling car ... $$ is now evidence for multiple criminal cases.

Should the casino cover the 'regulars' lost cash from the pot and then 'trust' the winner of the pot to give the money back to them if he recovers it via the court system?

Folks are talking about leverage here. Who has it in this spot? It's not like the casino can put a lien on evidence ... Possible that The State Court could release the evidence back to the Tribal Court once they are done with the guy. GL

@Suit

Do you think it's possible that they know that someone was overpaid within (making up a fake scenario for discussion purposes) a 30 minute time frame. They've examined the tape, and maybe they can't tell where exactly it happened (because people aren't perfect). They maybe narrowed it down to a small handful of possible transactions and for some unknown reason, they decide to pick the OP as the culprit even if they are not certain.

Not asking for odds or likelihood of this happening, I'm just wondering if this is possible (again, people aren't perfect and people make questionable decisions even high ranking casino employees). Is this even a possible scenario?

I know at a bank the 'windows' reconcile their drawers whenever they get slow. This can save them time at the end of a shift finding an issue ... and also save their job as they aren't allowed very many drawers to be off before they are out of a job.

When I worked at a restaurant they 'could' pull the drawers every hour during busy times in order to control the amount of cash on the floor and find out if there are any issues in the drawer before the end of shift. GL

"If it went to court, the casino would have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence (at least in the US) that it was right. showing the footage would be a good but not the only way of doing so."

What other evidence would be conclusive in court?



"Of course, they're not going to court over $200, and instead aren't forcing OP to pay them back, but saying if he wants to play in the casino in the future he needs to pay them."

Understood and completely irrelevant to me.

"There's no burden of proof for that, they can bar OP for any reason other than prohibited ones (namely discrimination on the basis of race, gender, etc.)"

Agreed that they can do that. Demanding money with menaces is called blackmail or extortion. Especially when you refuse to provide any evidence of the debt.

Jumping to conclusions there, aren't you?

That is not my belief. I'm reasonably certain that the casino is right and the money is owed.

It is also my belief that they should provide the evidence that the money is actually owed. Just like if I went to a hotel and they charged me for a room service meal that I don't remember ordering. Show me the receipt and I'll pay. Can't show me a receipt but still demand payment with severe consequence if I don't pay ???? Extortion

They are not demanding money. They are telling him that he was overpaid and that they would like for him to pay them back. If he refuses to do that, they obv. don't want someonein their casino who they suspect is stealing from them.

They are demanding $200 from him with the threat that he will be barred from the casino if he doesn't pay.

The reason for the demand is that they think he was overpaid. If they are not willing to provide the evidence, they shouldn't make the demand.

This is far from the norm at the places I've worked. Counting your bank mid-shift is not allowed as it can encourage bankers to force balance their bank. Once a mistake is made, the banker is responsible for it so discovering the error sooner doesn't really help them. If they overpay somebody $1,000, they will face the appropriate consequence regardless of whether the casino is able to find and/or recover the money.

Rich...you're not a lawyer.

Objection, counsellor. That assumes facts not yet in evidence. All they've said is that he's been overpaid. There has of yet been no statement made or implied of what might occur if the money is not repaid.

No.

They know he was overpaid. Not allowing the OP to review the tape may alter your perception of what transpired, but it does not change the fact that they know what happened.

If they are so perfect, how come they let this mistake happen in the first place. Didn't they know?

If they don't want to reveal details of their system and provide proof then fine, but how do we know this system actually functions properly? Just gotta trust them?

Easy. Contact gaming and they will investigate.

Generally evidence that shows that they overpaid him, subject to evidentiary rules. For instance, the cashier could testify that he/she recalls overpaying him. OP could be called to the stand and asked if he got the right amount of money or not. May not be conclusive, but if you had three cashiers each testify that OP got overpaid, plus evidence that the count was wrong, a judge/jury could say that was sufficient evidence to overcome the lower burden of proof in a civil trial. Note this isn't a criminal complaint so no "reasonable doubt" here.

I'd also add that this is definitely not blackmail and almost certainly not extortion. Blackmail is trying to get money from someone through threats of revealing confidential email. Extortion is trying to get money through someone through violence, or threats of violence, property damage or other extreme financial hardship. I doubt excluding someone from a casino (which is completely within their rights) would count as the last one.

I agree with your point on someone trying to 'make up' for a mistake, but I'm referring to the ability to rectify the mistake with the actual customer before it gets 'posted' .. more so at a bank where the relationship is a bit more cordial. GL

Just how is that going to work?

Do you remember overpaying the customer?
Yes, I do.
Why didn't you correct it then?
???

Did you see the other cashier making an incorrect payment?
Yes, I did.
Why didn't you say something then?
I don't know.

Of course, it may or may not be persuasive, that's for a jury/judge to decide. I'm just saying that it's possible to establish the case without the videotape.

You have seen the tapes?

Really?

https://www.google.com/search?q=what...ive&gws_rd=ssl

Not that my option matters but seems fairy simple to me. If you play regularly at this casino which seems to be the case then you should have no problem paying back the $200 and keep it moving. Nothing good is going to come out of putting this off or arguing with them over it, could only see you getting banned from the property or even taken to court possibly which will end up costing much more then $200 to fight. Next time at least double check what you give them and what you get back. I always double count at the very least before I hand them any cash and then what I get back to prevent anything of this sort.

I think the contention was that blackmail entails more than just confidential email.

oops auto correct on the phone. that should be confidential INFO.

This.

They won't show the tape to OP, but they WILL show it to GCB.

Also, speaking as an expert on "shooting off my mouth, then disappearing from a thread when it became clear that I was Wrong Again"...

...I'm pretty sure OP was convinced to repay without ever seeing video evidence.

Generally speaking, they will not know that a mistake was made until they reconcile the bank. This is usually only done at the end of their shift. Then the surveillance team will be notified and they will try to find the mistake. Sometimes it isn't until a manager is able to look through the tape that they actually find the mistake, so in some cases it isn't discovered where the money went or came from for a couple days.

As for the bold, I cannot speak for everyone and I'm sure there are people out there that may have poor enough judgment to do that, but IME if they can't determine exactly who it is, they would never ask anyone to repay it. I have searched through many hours of video trying to find mistakes and I have repaid several players that were shorted and collected money from several that were overpaid and every time I was 100% sure. There have also been a few times where I couldn't find it and even though I had a pretty good idea where it was, I had to let it go because I just couldn't tell for sure.

TLDR: Shady ppl do shady things. Is it possible? Yes. Likely? No.