Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatDong
This is what I’m looking for...is there something written regarding this or is the “call with less chips than the bet” simply a courtesy the casino provides? Because unless there is something we can fall back to, anyone using the words “correct ruling” is speaking subjectively. If there is no written rule, the ruling they made is neither objectively correct nor objectively incorrect and is rather everyone’s own speculations, which unless they see exactly what happened, is tough to even speculatively decide correctly.
This question has been asked a million times. There are probably tens of threads here that already answer this question. But here you go:
RRoP (cash games):
Quote:
BETTING AND RAISING
12. A player who bets or calls by releasing chips into the pot is bound by that action. However, if you are unaware that the pot has been raised, you may withdraw that money and reconsider your action, provided that no one else has acted after you.
In your OP, there was no raise before the initial one-chip call, and there was action after, so this is what is known as an "undercall", and you are held to the initial call of 100. This rule is what the whole one-chip call process is based on. Once you put in an undercall, you are held to the call, unless there was a raise you were unaware of and no one acts behind you.
Then there is a raise, not that it matters because when he puts the 100 stack in he is saying he was just making his original bet right, not undercalling the raise, which is not something specifically covered by any rule.
And also this:
Quote:
8. Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered needs some protection. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.
Example: On the end, a player puts a $500 chip into the pot and says softly, “Four hundred.” The opponent puts a $100 chip into the pot and says, “Call.” The bettor immediately shows the hand. The dealer says, “He bet four hundred.” The caller says, “Oh, I thought he bet a hundred.” In this case, the recommended ruling normally is that the bettor had an obligation to not show the hand when the amount put into the pot was obviously short, and the “call” can be retracted. Note that the character of each player can be a factor. (Unfortunately, situations can arise at big-bet poker that are not so clear-cut as this.)
In this case there really isn't even a gross misunderstanding because (once again) the player is claiming he is just making his earlier bet right, not calling the raise. But either way, the player making the raise is responsible for ensuring that the pot is reasonably right before showing his cards, which he did not do.
TDA (tournament):
Quote:
42: Binding Declarations / Undercalls in Turn
B: A player undercalls by declaring or pushing out less than the call amount without first declaring “call”. An undercall is a mandatory full call if made in turn facing 1) any bet heads-up or 2) the opening bet on any round multi-way. In other situations, TD’s discretion applies. The opening bet is the first chip bet of each betting round (not a check). In blind games the posted BB is the pre-flop opener. All-in buttons reduce undercall frequency (See Recommended Procedure 1). This rule governs when players must make a full call and when, at TDs discretion they may forfeit an undercall and fold. For underbets and underraises, see Rule 43.
If this had happened in a tournament, again, the initial one-chip call would have been upheld as a full call, because the call was of the opening bet. Once it is raised, and the player puts in 100, he will once again say he is just making his earlier call right, and should be allowed to do that. If you somehow feel the need to say it's actually 105 and he has once again undercalled the raise, now TD discretion is involved, and the TD may (but is not obligated to) allow the player to forfeit his undercall (in this case $5) and fold. But it will almost certainly never get to this, because, again, he will argue that he was just making his first undercall right.
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Suit is telling you that he wouldn't consider the original one-chip call an undercall/full call because, in his room, he has specifically created a rule disallowing all one-chip calls, and instead instructs his dealers to verify the action with the one-chip caller, and force them to put in a full call before allowing action to proceed. He does this specifically to avoid all these sorts of issues caused by one-chip calls, especially multi-way. But this is not the way most rooms operate (even though I wish it were the way all rooms operated).
In summary: one chip calls are dumb. Don't do them, unless closing action heads up. If they are done to you, clarify the action before showing down or acting behind them, because that is the only way for you to protect yourself from a (good or bad) ruling.
Last edited by dinesh; 01-31-2019 at 11:20 PM.
