We will never know, because this is the exact opposite of my experiences. Also, I love having a button straddler to my right, even if it's right next to me and my SB/BB is always straddled. Keeps me out of trouble and enables me to play much better from OOP.

Plus, we have good relative position pre-flop just in case we wake up with something, often in a pot with more than the usual dead money in it.

Good in terms of a more "live" lineup. Bad in terms of making a shallow 2/5 game even more shallow.

Which is more important? (In the sense of making a game "better" as in more desirable to play in, or "worse" in the sense of making a game less desirable to play in)

[ ] a more live lineup
[ ] how shallow a 1/2, 1/3 or 2/5 game is

I know what I would choose.

Duh.

Not all things are so easily categorized as "deep and tight" or "shallow and loose", and there may be a different preference when it come to evaluation of other situations.

You said that like it's a bad thing lol.

Few things better than rec players still playing 'deep' style without realizing they are now 'shallow' because of the straddle.

So they continue to call off 25% of their stacks with suited connectors/small pairs trying to hit something, then folding when they miss (or stacking off the rest of their 'shallow' stack getting a small piece of flop.

Straddles make casual players play better pots than they're used to. This is good for the skilled players.

I think that this title is sufficiently ambiguous that we can really answer either way.

By 'good' or 'bad' for the game, do we mean the longevity of the game, do we mean how profitable it will be for us to sit in the game, do we mean how much fun it is for those in the game? Each of those can lead to different answers.

Also when we mention button straddles, what are we comparing this to? Are they good for the game compared to regular straddles, compared to no straddles, or compared to a game where the BB is equal to the straddle? Again, the answers can vary widely depending on which of those we mean.

Finally, different player pools can have very different meta-games regarding button straddles. Some will presumably play tighter, and some might be looser.

My actual observations for button straddles are that they cause the other players to play much tighter pre-flop compared to a non-straddle situation, especially the blinds. This tends to result in fewer multi-way pots, which in my experience reduces both the profitability of the game for players, and also reduces how much fun players are having.

In fact, I've found from the games I've played that all players (both those who are there for fun, and professionals) benefit from just increasing the blinds, rather than having a straddle (both button and UTG). This is because when you add straddles to the game, the blinds play tighter, and in the UTG straddle case, the BU plays tighter too. However, one downside to increasing the blinds is that some players who are used to a certain blind level can be scared off by this increase, especially if it comes with a corresponding increase to the buy-in cap.

Additionally, unless stack sizes are adjusted to compensate for the straddle, it reduces the range of hands which you can profitably play pre-flop, meaning that there will be even less action. Whilst weaker players will still play those speculative hands pre-flop in a shorter stacked straddle situation, making it more profitable for good players, this tends to hurt the longevity and fun of the game, due to other players playing less hands, resulting in a more 'boring' game.

In my opinion, you're after a good balance of profitability and longevity and fun, use a button ante instead of a button straddle. That way everyone is incentivised to play more hands, more money goes into each pot, and you don't have to worry about players getting scared off by larger blinds/higher buy-ins.

anything that makes the blinds go first and fold: BAD FOR GAME

move on

whether or not the button straddle is bad for the game depending on if they use RENO rules, or if they do like florida, houston, philadelphia, detroit and most places where the SB must act first, and that kills the action if so, so yes in most cities, with the exception of reno and deadwood, its bad for the game.

its especially bad if someone is pressuring others to. and those who dont want to feel pushed out of the game. i always suggest in this case an UTG mandatory straddle instead. and since theyre basically all nits, they refuse.

How many people who claim button straddle is good have data to back it up? You lose more at middle and bottom of range, make more at top. I personally make 2bb/hr more in the room with no button straddle.

Anytime someone puts a raise in without seeing their god damn cards, GOOD FOR GAME.

Move on.

Anyone who thinks any sort of straddle is bad for a game sounds like the old man who gets pissed at me for being drunk and going all-in with any 2.

There are many small stakes examples where that’s just not true.

Games like $1/3 with $100 min buy-in can turn into preflop shove fests with button straddles. Players who come to see flops don’t like that.

A decent amount of players who likes to limp/call also decides to just fold when the straddle is on.

What’s good for the game depends on what keeps players happy. If the straddle turns a game that frequently sees 4-5 players to the flop into a game where most pots are contested heads-up, that doesn’t make too many players happy.

If I go to a card room looking to play 1-3NL with a $300 buy-in cap, I don't want to play 1-3-5NL with that same cap. If I'm there to play 2-5, I don't want to play 2-5-10. Yes, other people putting in chips blind is +ev for me, but it not only changes the structure of the game, it changes the dynamics, mostly for the negative.

The 1/3 game that I play (6- Max) has an optional $5 button straddle. Wonder if this could be a +EV play and how it effects the game overall. Also is this a +EV play at 5 handed or less?

In a game that allows both UTG and button straddles and for the same amount, if a player consistently only straddles UTG I feel he's a fish and doesn't really understand why he's straddling.

Agree?

Yes. Unless there's some crazy dynamics / meta game I don't see any reason why you would straddle from UTG but not from the button if you have both options.

From the top of my head I can come up with only one scenario where we would want to do that:
When we are on the button, a huge spot is in the SB or BB and tells us he's going to quit the game if we don't stop the BU straddle (I've seen that happen). And when we are UTG nobody objects to us straddling we think it's +EV for us to do it.