That's funny I've almost never seen it make a game better but I've often seen it completely ruin games

Triple blind or uth straddle is the way to go

I prefer a rock to a button straddle.

From reading this thread it sounds like a "normal" button straddle starts the pre flop action from the sb?? This makes no sense to me I don't see the logic. The places I frequent don't have button straddles but the places I've played at that allow it its always been action starts UTG and then Button acts last after BB. Seems far better to me.

How does the action start UTG then the button acts last after the BB? The action skips over the button and lets the blinds act, and then it reverts back to the button? So the blinds could act twice in a row before the other players: A few players call the button straddle, the button is skipped for now, the SB folds, the BB raises, the button is then next to act and 3bets, then the BB 4bets, so now the BB got to raise and 4bet before original callers even got to act on the first raise.

I've played in at least one room where the action starts with the SB when the button straddles. And one of the problems with that is no matter how loudly the dealer announces the button straddled and the action is on the SB, very often the UTG player acts out of habit. It's just a mess.

Lol, why would you think the BB raise would go straight to the button and skip the limpers?

Also button acts in turn if there is a raise in front.

The rock is even worse

Here are some more problems with all straddles:

1. The game is now shallower in terms of big blinds. Deeper stack play is more interesting.

2. As pointed out, the structure of the game is now not what is posted. A rec player who wants to play 2-5 now finds they are playing 5-10 essentially and doesn’t enjoy the game. Next time the rec may play lower.

3. When there is a player who straddles every hand, some seats gain a massive benefit and some gain a massive disadvantage. It’s absolute death to have a button straddler one or two seats to your right and now correct strategy dictates that you absolutely must change seats (few do). While a lot of positional disadvantage is already built into the rules, we shouldn’t encourage further rules that make for even more positional disadvantages.

With a button straddle, when action starts UTG preflop, IF it limps to the button, it skips the button and the blinds act before it goes back to the button. If someone raises before action gets to the button the first time around, the button acts in turn (instead of it skipping the button for the blinds to act first). You're right though, it can stink if it limps to the button, it skips the button, the blinds limp along, and then the button raises his/her straddle. Again, another example of it being tougher for the blinds to play when there's a button straddle whether preflop action starts with the SB or UTG.

Most places I've played like this, the action has been good enough on a button straddle in most NLHE games that it almost never limps to the button. Someone will raise before it gets to the straddle. In that sense, the blinds act just like they would in any other game. This is more true in 2-5 and 5-10 games it seems because there is much less limping

I think the question is what happens if SB or BB raise the straddle after it has skipped the BUT straddle. Do all the limpers have to act twice before BUT acts once, or does action skip around even more crazily as BUT acts after BB then it goes back to UTG.

(The answer IME is that once there is a raise everyone acts in turn going forward, but this is one of the reasons I don't like rooms where action skips players.)

I've never played in a BUT straddle game, but I have played in a game with a kill where the kill gets similarly skipped if no raise in front of them, then they act last. It can cause all sorts of action following problems for people who aren't used to it or who are not paying attention to the fact that someone has the kill/straddle.

It was many years ago, but I've heard that Planet Hollywood (Vegas) has the most extreme straddle rules.

1) Action does start UTG and skips the straddler no matter where they are.

2) Action (even raises) continues to skip the straddler until all the other action is complete 'as normal'.

3) Once all other action is complete, then the straddler decides if they want fold, call any raise they are now facing or raise themselves.

So there could be a raise, 3-bet and all-in during two 'laps' around the table before the straddler takes their action ... again, from what I remember.

Straddle in MP to 10
UTG opens action ... raise to 20
HJ raise to 30
B call 30
SB/BB fold
UTG raise to 60
HJ call 60
B call 60

NOW the MP straddle has action on them .. fold, call 60 or raise to 110+ ... Should the straddle raise in this spot then action is now on the HJ and is open to both B and UTG 'as normal'. GL

Button straddle in theory should be very bad for the game because the correct adjustment for the thinking players is to tighten up. If the game has enough action players then it might nevertheless be "good for the game" relative to just playing with the original 2 blinds (still inferior relative to UTG straddle).

"Let's do a round of button straddles to get this game out of the muck!" Said nobody ever so far in my short dealing career, as compared to dozens of suggested rounds of UTG straddles. I think the button straddle rarely improves games that a winning player/regular would consider bad/average, and the improvements will generally be minor. Games that are already good/great may improve with a button straddle, but will likely improve even more with an UTG straddle.

Mississipi straddles, where btn straddles and sb must act first are bad for the game imo. Normal btn straddles where the straddler acts last to limpers and normal to a raise(s), is good for the game as it leads to more action.

Too pedantic, nit-wise.

If you are playing with a table of nits, not much is going to help, and then I concur, straddles may tend to have the opposite effect.

But if you have the luxury of better game selection, where more of the Villains came to actually play and not to grind out their hourly, any straddle is good for the game IMO.

If you are the one doing the grinding, and other people want to play, don't you think your own button straddle makes the game better? Helps almost as much as taking off your headphones, removing your shades, and putting away your laptop, IMO.

(No offense to anyone actually grinding with the phones and shades and laptops, but dang, your hourly should be improved if even a couple of actual "playing" Villains do it as well, whether their own straddles are UTG or BTN.)

But I'm just an old fart, carry on as you wish.

As with all of poker, it depends.

I like playing deep, action games, and I usually fold my blinds w/o strong hands, anyway, so I love button straddles.

Good for the game in general? To me, yes, because the games are usually deeper with more action. To nits who want to play shallow w/ little action, probably not.

Button straddle does not play bigger and destroys a ton of action

I know nits who seem to love it when people straddle because it makes the game shallower and easier for them to limp-reraise all-in.

In general, straddles should make pre-flop and flop play simpler, because you aren't worrying about turn or river bets. I actually really enjoy doing this at tables where people are 1) limping a lot, and 2) no one has much more than 100bb.

A lot of the people willing to limp $2 at 1/2 will also limp $5. Suddenly you have 5 limpers with $28 in the pot. If you raise and get a call or two, your only decision on the flop is shove or check/fold. For a weak rec like myself, all I need to worry about is my starting hand ranges and basic flop rule of 4 math. Works for me!

You are playing in the wrong games.

Raise would be to 90+, not 110+, as discussed in other thread.
/derail

button stradle makes games shallower and less complex/shortens decision trees.

button stradle makes games shallower and less complex.

Yes.

In turn, that makes it easier for recreational players and bad regs to shove or stack off.

That's a good thing.

I feel like half of people responding itt havent read the thread title or havent played a hand of poker with a btn straddle

obviously, normal straddles are very good for the game - you are playing the same game, just with more money in the pot. There are some super specific instances where you might encounter players who are scared of stakes rising, but it's very rare

not as obviously, but equally true, button straddles are almost always bad for the game. It is hard to explain why, but I play in the game where missisipis are allowed 3-5 times a week and the hands where they are on are simply less action, and often play smaller

First of all, missisipis are much, much less -ev than normal straddles, since you are putting in blind money from a position where you would be playing much higher vpip anyway, and where you dont mind defending super wide range. Secondly, they make ep (esp blinds) limping much more viable, the game I play in almost never has any limped pots except for button straddles pots

I think you mean 'more' -EV (more bad, worse) ... IMO you almost make a case 'for' a Button Straddle as is made in my original quote above.

If, in your stated game above, you want to 'control' the table a bit more while you have position then the straddle is a perfect way to do it since there is a lot more limping and then you get to decide if you want to open or just play your position. If you can get Players to limp a wider portion of their range then you can more easily defend any 3-bets that actually do occur.

You also get the added 'control' of Nitty blinds by getting to see what they do before you consider your own action. Nothing worse than opening/3-betting from the Button and having an OMC or Nit crash the party from the blinds.

This is a perpetual debate since I can choose to use, or not use, the Straddle depending on my table dynamic and what I'm trying to accomplish .. loosen or tighten .. the action. GL